This could apply just as well apply to M-Leica users ...

[MarkP]

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https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/08/stick-shift-manual-transmission-cars/671078/

[Helge]

No, it is not applicable to things like manual cameras or vinyl records etc.

A car is really a tool, and using a state-of-the-art automatic drive reduces gas consumption significantly and adds safety due to the easy use of ACC etc. Most arguments the author of the linked article is bringing up are either just virtual or just not true.

Nobody using a manual camera is vasting gas or risking his or other‘s safety 😉

Edited August 9, 2022 by Helge

[earleygallery]

I don't see the connection with Leica M users. Maybe some correlation between learning to drive a manual car in the same way that one can learn the fundamentals of photography as opposed to just pointing a camera and pressing the shutter button (a solution that Kodak came up with when they released their first box camera in 1900 which could be 'operated by any school boy or girl'). The digital camera is even easier to use than that and you see the results immediately.

Also here in the UK the majority of cars are manual transmission and the majority of people learn on a manual car and take the test for a manual car. If you take the test in an auto car you can then only drive auto unless you take another test for manual cars later on. Auto is getting more popular and electric cars will change things more over time.

Now, as to manual cars being unsafe..........!

Edited August 9, 2022 by earleygallery

[Helge]

Automatic drive with 7 or 8 gears is the only way to achieve already known future gas consumption limits, so manual will probably die. This part of the linked article is true, as well as a lot of future safety features work optimal in connection/integration  with an automatic drive. In Germany 50% of all new cars is purchased as automatic drive, tendency strongly increasing.

This doesn’t mean that a stick shift is unsafe 😉

And there is for sure no connection to a Leica M😎

Edited August 9, 2022 by Helge

[Viv]

I see no corollary with Leica M.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

7 hours ago, MarkP said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/08/stick-shift-manual-transmission-cars/671078/

I can relate to this Mark 

[LUF Admin]

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Three posts hidden.

Please keep a civilized tone, folks.

Andreas

[Huss]

Automatic cars are like throwing a frozen pizza in the oven and calling yourself a chef.

😜

Actually the biggest liability to vehicle safety now are all the extremely distracting electronics that let you do fun stuff when you should be driving.

I just checked the stats and the #1 cause of accidents is not being a Leica M user.  I mean, it is distracted driving.

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, MarkP said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/08/stick-shift-manual-transmission-cars/671078/

How weird, only 1/3 rd of cars sold have an automatic transmission, and the sale of non-electric cars will be prohibited from 2030 onwards...

[MarkP]

These quotes express where I feel that this is relevant to fully manual cameras - this tactile connection to the camera and the extra level of control (real or apparent 🙂)

"I love the feeling that I am operating  my car, not just driving it"

"the feeling it imparts to the driver: a sense, whether real or imagined, that he or she is in control"

"this cognitive enhancement is possible only when you can interpret the components of the tool you’re operating"
"But we’ll lose something bigger and more important: the comfort of knowing that there is one essential, everyday device still out there that you can actually feel operating"

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by MarkP

[jaapv]

It is simply that I feel that an automatic car is not in my control. With an EV equally without shift, I don’t have this feeling b

[kivis]

I own a Leica M-A and a VW Jetta GLI with manual transmission. Make your own comparisons. 

[Huss]

My Mazda Miata and Jeep Wrangler Rubicon both have the manual transmission.

With the Miata it is almost a crime to get it as an automatic, as it is such a basic stripped down sports car.  With the Jeep - to be honest automatic would have been better for when I go off roading.  There, where you are inching over rocks, a manual transmission and clutch is not ideal.  But it is fun elsewhere!

[Huss]

20 hours ago, jaapv said:

How weird, only 1/3 rd of cars sold have an automatic transmission, and the sale of non-electric cars will be prohibited from 2030 onwards...

Where did you get that number from?  I didn't see that in the article.  

 

In 2000, more than 15 percent of new and used cars sold by the auto retailer CarMax came with stick shifts; by 2020, that figure had dropped to 2.4 percent. Among the hundreds of new car models for sale in the United States this year, only about 30 can be purchased with a manual transmission. 

[Helge]

Germany was a stick shift country.

20 years ago already 20% of sold cars had automatic drive.

Today 50% of the sold cars are automatic. Manual will go for 3 major reasons (I added 1 😉)

1: gas consumption regulations 

2: integration of safety features (also for fulfill legal requirements)

3: (I didn‘t mention before) comfort. I know a lot of people who like today‘s 8 gear automatic or the 7 gear double clutch shift automat they use. Similar to #2 for integration of comfort features.

Only #3 has similarities to a camera or the technology used in a camera. Automatic exposure and automatic focus do in reality relief the user from measuring, from setting and from making decisions. That is great, since it reduces the number of under/overexposed pictures or pictures out of focus. But it also removed the direct control like an automatic gear shift does in a car.

Maybe also for cars there might be in a distant future some very expensive and rare stick shift cars available for some enthusiasts, like a Leica M.

For the absolute majority sticks will be gone, for all 3 reasons in some years

Edited August 10, 2022 by Helge

[1joel1]

Of course my Lotus is manual and I was interested in the new Supra, but I didn't want an automatic transmission. Due to customer demand, the 2023 Supra will be available with a 6 speed, yay. I'm gonna sign up for one, I think. 

[earleygallery]

I think the future is the horse and cart, or donkeys. No emissions (well not too harmful) and no need for expensive electricity to run them.

 

[ianman]

14 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

I think the future is the horse and cart, or donkeys. No emissions (well not too harmful) and no need for expensive electricity to run them.

Yes but it could lead to all sorts of misunderstandings if you want to complement someone for their nice looking ass vehicle.