Jobetim Posted July 21, 2022 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) After purchasing a Q2 Mono, I finally bought an M11 with a 50mm f2 APO-Summicron ASPH, and what a delight both cameras are to handle and use, delivering wonderful images. I thought I'd do (an entirely non-scientific) comparison between the M11 and my Sony AR7 IV (sharing the same sensor?) with a Zeiss Sonnar 55mm f1.8; taking a seascape view on a sunny afternoon with identical settings on both cameras (shutter speed, ISO), at f5.6, f8 and f11, then comparing the images, side-to-side, in LrC. Although there were (minor) subjective differences between the images, neither was more pleasing (to me) and I couldn't detect any real differences in technical performance, even at 100% edge-to-edge; both camera and lens combinations were excellent. I then did the same comparison, using my Q2 Mono (28mm) with my Sony and a 16-35 GM zoom lens, set at 28mm. I then rendered the image from the Sony in monochrome by desaturating it in LrC. The result? As above, no discernible difference either subjectively or objectively. Although I have no regrets buying the Leicas, I wondered if my 'real-world' comparison indicates that lenses are now just about as good as they can get? It is striking though, that to me, the 16-35 GM zoom image looks just as good as the Summilux 28mm ASPH on the Mono, and that I could see no real difference in the APO-Summicron (£6700) and the Zeiss Sonnar (£500). Maybe I'm not looking hard enough! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2022 Posted July 21, 2022 Hi Jobetim, Take a look here I love my M11, (and Q2 Mono) but..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted July 21, 2022 Share #2 Posted July 21, 2022 Not that surprising. My old Kolari mod A7s and A7r2 do fine with the Zeiss 55/1.8. I prefer the Summilux 50/1.4 asph (here on A7s mod) but it is a matter of tastes i guess. Did you try M lenses on your A7r4? Just curious. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/334750-i-love-my-m11-and-q2-mono-but/?do=findComment&comment=4474514'>More sharing options...
Telecaster Posted July 21, 2022 Share #3 Posted July 21, 2022 All modern cameras incl. phones make awesome pictures amb their „technical picture quality“ today. The reason why you buy one over the other are very individual decisions based on your own criteria: Brand perception, user interface, available existing lenses, starting a collection, sentimental reasons, professional factors if you need make money using it, being part of a community and post in forums like this ;-), etc… I did the same journey from Sony now to Q2 and then M11 as you and I enjoy owning and using the Leica systems, because they slow me down in an otherwise fast paced lifestyle. I have not bought them for the technical specs or image quality at all. Greetings from Munich, Andreas 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #4 Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Jobetim said: After purchasing a Q2 Mono, I finally bought an M11 with a 50mm f2 APO-Summicron ASPH, and what a delight both cameras are to handle and use, delivering wonderful images. I thought I'd do (an entirely non-scientific) comparison between the M11 and my Sony AR7 IV (sharing the same sensor?) with a Zeiss Sonnar 55mm f1.8; taking a seascape view on a sunny afternoon with identical settings on both cameras (shutter speed, ISO), at f5.6, f8 and f11, then comparing the images, side-to-side, in LrC. Although there were (minor) subjective differences between the images, neither was more pleasing (to me) and I couldn't detect any real differences in technical performance, even at 100% edge-to-edge; both camera and lens combinations were excellent. I then did the same comparison, using my Q2 Mono (28mm) with my Sony and a 16-35 GM zoom lens, set at 28mm. I then rendered the image from the Sony in monochrome by desaturating it in LrC. The result? As above, no discernible difference either subjectively or objectively. Although I have no regrets buying the Leicas, I wondered if my 'real-world' comparison indicates that lenses are now just about as good as they can get? It is striking though, that to me, the 16-35 GM zoom image looks just as good as the Summilux 28mm ASPH on the Mono, and that I could see no real difference in the APO-Summicron (£6700) and the Zeiss Sonnar (£500). Maybe I'm not looking hard enough! They don’t share the same sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2022 Share #5 Posted July 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, jdlaing said: They don’t share the same sensor. The M11 has a Sony sensor (IMX455AQK) I've been told but i don't know about the A7r4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #6 Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, lct said: The M11 has a Sony sensor (IMX455AQK) I've been told but i don't know about the A7r4. No. It is not a Sony sensor. It is a custom made one off. You were misinformed. I have no direct pipeline for information from Leica but I do elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2022 Share #7 Posted July 21, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 minute ago, jdlaing said: No. It is not a Sony sensor. It is a custom made one off. You were misinformed. I have no direct pipeline for information from Leica but I do elsewhere. My source confirms what i said above. See below. I have a photo of the Sony sensor in the M11 but i'm not allowed to display it sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted July 21, 2022 Share #8 Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jdlaing said: No. It is not a Sony sensor. It is a custom made one off. You were misinformed. I have no direct pipeline for information from Leica but I do elsewhere. Who else should have made this sensor with pixel binning if not Sony? Leica itself? In Wetzlar?! Ha Ha Ha! Edited July 21, 2022 by trequartista 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #9 Posted July 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, lct said: My source confirms what i said above. See below. I have a photo of the Sony sensor in the M11 but i'm not allowed to display it sorry. Let’s do this a different way. Tell me what you think a sensor is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2022 Share #10 Posted July 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, jdlaing said: Let’s do this a different way. Tell me what you think a sensor is. I just know that IMX455AQK sensors are Sony sensors. See attached flyer. IMX455AQK-K_Flyer.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted July 21, 2022 Share #11 Posted July 21, 2022 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/334750-i-love-my-m11-and-q2-mono-but/?do=findComment&comment=4474539'>More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #12 Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, lct said: I just know that IMX455AQK sensors are Sony sensors. See attached flyer. IMX455AQK-K_Flyer.pdf 84.58 kB · 0 downloads You didn’t answer my question. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #13 Posted July 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, trequartista said: Who else should have made this sensor with pixel binning if not Sony? Leica itself? In Wetzlar?! Ha Ha Ha! Three companies that I know of. One each in the US, Japan and Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2022 Share #14 Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, jdlaing said: You didn’t answer my question. I know nothing else than what i said sorry. For more details you may wish to ask our colleague @Frame It, the author of the post i quoted above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #15 Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, lct said: I know nothing else than what i said sorry. For more details you may wish to ask our colleague @Frame It, the author of the post i quoted above. That’s what I thought. Stick with “know nothing”. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2022 Share #16 Posted July 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, jdlaing said: That’s what I thought. Stick with “know nothing”. Not very nice that reply but i can only confirm that the M11 sensor is a Sony sensor according to the source i quoted above. Do you have any source BTW? Just curious. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted July 21, 2022 Share #17 Posted July 21, 2022 The ugly truth : https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-IV-versus-Leica-M11___1326_1379 Same results, same curves, same sensor (probably/certainly/absolutely) I am glad that Leica gave us p boutique manufacturing sensors. Sony Semi’s ones are the best. So many happy customers : Sony itself, Nikon which is making the steppers used to engraved Sony’s sensors, Fujifilm, Ricoh, Pentax, Sigma, Panasonic, OM System aka Olympus, even Canon for anything smaller than APS-C ! And of course Leica !! And every iPhones since the first one. Get over it. Sony semi owns more than 75% of CMOS market share for a reason : they are the very best. Hopefully Leica is using more of them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted July 21, 2022 Share #18 Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) I too understand that Sony have one of the best CMOS image sensor processes for image sensors. Sony invests more in R&D than most and as far as I have read only Tower-Panasonic can compete on small pixel technology. Leica surely is not large enough to be able to invest in their own sensor technology but must use the best sensors available if they are to produce market leading product and right now that means Sony. Edited July 21, 2022 by Mr.Prime Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted July 21, 2022 Share #19 Posted July 21, 2022 At first i was so disappointed with leica making a jump into another sensor maker, allegedly, sony, which its counter part priced lower than M11, anyway, i remember why i stick with M analog despite other camera with the same film stok most likely give the same results so that’s the case…it’s the experience and the lens lineups which are priceless and probably many more to point out i told myself to stop buying the SL’s as well as the Q’s in the process being focusing only on M 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2022 Share #20 Posted July 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, lct said: Not very nice that reply but i can only confirm that the M11 sensor is a Sony sensor according to the source i quoted above. Do you have any source BTW? Just curious. No source that I will publicly expose. Leica, right up to today, has never used a mass produced off the shelf sensor. It won’t work with the flange to sensor distance on M lenses. That’s why there are micro lenses on the sensor. The image engine is pure Leica specifications. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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