Summicron M 35 (8 element)

[dkCambridgeshire]

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https://www.leicashop.com/classic/at/en/lcc/Summicron-11308-2-35mm-Chrome/33640-2

Store owned by Leica Camera AG 

Edited July 14, 2022 by dkCambridgeshire

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[pippy]

Things are, clearly, getting very silly. Hey-Ho.

Alternatively one could always go down 'The Same Route Yet Different';

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/#comment-4312043

As it happens - and (obviously) purely by coincidence - I was out with my LLL today in place of 'The Habitual' '74 v2 Summilux. Results are fantastic.

Ye Pays Yer Money and Ye Makes Yer Choice...

Philip.

[Erato]

IMHO, in terms of image quality factors, LLL 8-Elements is great but overall build quality and performance is still hard to beat Leica SUMMICRON 1:2/3.5. 

When I look into the subtle details and overall image rendition especially in the highlight and lowlight portions, I'd keep the Leica. You should check comments from China pals. Most of the comments I found yet not as good as Leica original design up until now.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Erato

[Pyrogallol]

Nice, but expensive. I think I will stick to my 35mm f2.8 Summaron, said to be better than the 8 element Summicron at f2.8

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[TomB_tx]

11 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Nice, but expensive. I think I will stick to my 35mm f2.8 Summaron, said to be better than the 8 element Summicron at f2.8

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I have both the Summaron 2.8 and Summicron, and I prefer the images from the Summaron. Seem to have more "snap" - maybe higher contrast due to fewer elements.

[romualdo]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:29 PM, Pyrogallol said:

Nice, but expensive. I think I will stick to my 35mm f2.8 Summaron, said to be better than the 8 element Summicron at f2.8

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I have a question from the paragraph on performance of the Summaron 35/2.8 - what is meant by "Vignetting is 2 Stops"?

[luigi bertolotti]

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2 hours ago, romualdo said:

I have a question from the paragraph on performance of the Summaron 35/2.8 - what is meant by "Vignetting is 2 Stops"?

Is a quick way to evaluate the degree of "vignetting" - to say - the loss of luminosity at the corners of the frame : "2 stops vignetting" means that, if - for instance - lens aperture is f 4,  the corners are darker - like you had closed to f8.

You can see clearly this effect shooting at a white sheet - see this example taken at different apertures on a certain lens (the degree of vignetting, typically - decreases stopping down)

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Edited July 18, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

[romualdo]

4 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Is a quick way to evaluate the degree of "vignetting" - to say - the loss of luminosity at the corners of the frame : "2 stops vignetting" means that, if - for instance - lens aperture is f 4,  the corners are darker - like you had closed to f8.

You can see clearly this effect shooting at a white - light gray - sheet

 

 

 

got it & thanks for the clear explanation Luigi - yes, i've seen that white/grey sheet effect in pics online/books

one further question - does that occur at every stop ie 2.8 to 22 or is it only noticeable at the wider apertures?

[luigi bertolotti]

5 minutes ago, romualdo said:

 

one further question - does that occur at every stop ie 2.8 to 22 or is it only noticeable at the wider apertures?

(see my above picture (added it after your answer....)  : vignetting indeed  tends to disappear completely at closest apertures : ususally, when a "tester" declares "vignetting is 2 stops" he refers to the behavior with lens wide open. 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

[romualdo]

22 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

(see my above picture (added it after your answer....)  : vignetting indeed  tends to disappear completely at closest apertures : ususally, when a "tester" declares "vignetting is 2 stops" he refers to the behavior with lens wide open. 

 

OK & thanks again Luigi - yes, that makes more sense

[willeica]

The prices for this item have been climbing for years - see the pattern here:

https://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Leitz/35mm-f2-Summicron-(BM,-chrome).html

But once you get into variations such as a rare black screwmount version, the prices become stratospheric:

https://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Leitz/35mm-f2-Summicron-(SM,-black).html

I''d be surprised if anyone here does not know that the prices in the collector market have nothing whatsoever to do with an item being a 'better lens'. And, yes, for most normal use, a Summaron is just as good, but not as good as a modern 35mm M lens from Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander

On 7/14/2022 at 8:57 PM, dkCambridgeshire said:

https://www.leicashop.com/classic/at/en/lcc/Summicron-11308-2-35mm-Chrome/33640-2

Store owned by Leica Camera AG 

Dunk, the link you posted is not working. I presume that the item (whatever it was) is now sold, which would prove my point above. 

William 

 

 

[dkCambridgeshire]

35 minutes ago, willeica said:

The prices for this item have been climbing for years - see the pattern here:

https://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Leitz/35mm-f2-Summicron-(BM,-chrome).html

But once you get into variations such as a rare black screwmount version, the prices become stratospheric:

https://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Leitz/35mm-f2-Summicron-(SM,-black).html

I''d be surprised if anyone here does not know that the prices in the collector market have nothing whatsoever to do with an item being a 'better lens'. And, yes, for most normal use, a Summaron is just as good, but not as good as a modern 35mm M lens from Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander

Dunk, the link you posted is not working. I presume that the item (whatever it was) is now sold, which would prove my point above. 

William 

 

 

Yes William it is sold ... but there are several other Leica €strato lenses listed https://www.leicashop.com/classic/at/en/lcc/Leica/M-System/Lenses/?order=price-desc&p=1

BW, dunk 

[willeica]

12 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Yes William it is sold ... but there are several other Leica €strato lenses listed https://www.leicashop.com/classic/at/en/lcc/Leica/M-System/Lenses/?order=price-desc&p=1

BW, dunk 

 The 'Steel-Rim' is above the highest here, but A- is probably close to mint.

https://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Leitz/35mm-f1.4-Summilux-(BM,-chrome,-Steel-Rim).html

This is a market where the 'correct' price is what another person is prepared to pay. This price might make some of the people who own one of these lenses very happy, of course. Leitz/Leica lenses rarely lose their value and, in most cases, they keep going up in value.

The same is true of cameras. My M6 is now worth about 3 times what I paid for it just 11 years ago. 

William 

[dkCambridgeshire]

2 hours ago, willeica said:

 The 'Steel-Rim' is above the highest here, but A- is probably close to mint.

https://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Leitz/35mm-f1.4-Summilux-(BM,-chrome,-Steel-Rim).html

This is a market where the 'correct' price is what another person is prepared to pay. This price might make some of the people who own one of these lenses very happy, of course. Leitz/Leica lenses rarely lose their value and, in most cases, they keep going up in value.

The same is true of cameras. My M6 is now worth about 3 times what I paid for it just 11 years ago. 

William 

... and I sold my M6 Titanium to fund an SL 24-90mm ... I should have waited and kept the M6 Titanium    BW, dunk 

[qqphot]

I looked at one of the special 1999 LTM ones at Leica Store SF and thought about it too long, and noticed that someone snapped it up.  Still, too expensive, I suppose.

I'm really impressed with the F/2.8 Summaron. I wasn't expecting it to be quite as good as it turned out to be. I have one of the goggled M-mount ones. The LTM ones seem much harder to find in good condition, and it seems like many of the eBay listings for them are fraudulently or inadvertently selling ones pulled out of goggled M-mount Summarons as LTM summarons, which will fit the mount but won't focus since the rangefinder coupling is different.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by qqphot

[willeica]

6 hours ago, qqphot said:

I looked at one of the special 1999 LTM ones at Leica Store SF and thought about it too long, and noticed that someone snapped it up.  Still, too expensive, I suppose.

I'm really impressed with the F/2.8 Summaron. I wasn't expecting it to be quite as good as it turned out to be. I have one of the goggled M-mount ones. The LTM ones seem much harder to find in good condition, and it seems like many of the eBay listings for them are fraudulently or inadvertently selling ones pulled out of goggled M-mount Summarons as LTM summarons, which will fit the mount but won't focus since the rangefinder coupling is different.

 

They are all good. The trick with finding out if you have the correct one is to check the minimum focus distance which is 

Goggle M Version 0.65m

Non Goggle M Version 0.7m

LTM Version 1 m

I have all 3 and all of them are excellent. The contemporary Canon 35mm f2.8 LTM lens, which I have, is also excellent.

William 

 

[qqphot]

9 hours ago, willeica said:

They are all good. The trick with finding out if you have the correct one is to check the minimum focus distance which is 

Goggle M Version 0.65m

Non Goggle M Version 0.7m

LTM Version 1 m

I have all 3 and all of them are excellent. The contemporary Canon 35mm f2.8 LTM lens, which I have, is also excellent.

William 

 

Once I learned that fact I browsed the various listings on eBay to see how bad it was. One seller: "Oh i dont know, I just posted this listing for my son, I'll have to ask him."

 

[Noctinoir]

Hello, mainly a noctilux shooter here.

Looking to get a M 35mm lens so started looking at the Summicron. The S’lux 1.4m doesn’t grab me much.

For those familiar with all things 35mm M mount, which lens would you say is the most classic in this category? Or to use a Noctilux comparison, which would be the equivalent to the original Nocti 50mm f/1.2?

I am guessing the 8 element Cron but keen to hear the views of the experienced in this field.

Ps yes I would use the lens to shoot but am also looking for a rare and collectible model too.

Many thanks

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[grahamc]

3 hours ago, Noctinoir said:

Hello, mainly a noctilux shooter here.

Looking to get a M 35mm lens so started looking at the Summicron. The S’lux 1.4m doesn’t grab me much.

For those familiar with all things 35mm M mount, which lens would you say is the most classic in this category? Or to use a Noctilux comparison, which would be the equivalent to the original Nocti 50mm f/1.2?

I am guessing the 8 element Cron but keen to hear the views of the experienced in this field.

Ps yes I would use the lens to shoot but am also looking for a rare and collectible model too.

Many thanks

I would say the Summilux v1 Steel Rim - although if you are used to 50mm compression and want to get the most out of the bokeh with 35mm FL, then you would probably want the Goggled version.  (since the goggled version focuses to 0.65 and the non-goggled is 1m) .

Summicron v1 8 element also has a gorgeous bokeh and a real pop to the subject , so I can see why you are drawn to that also.    It's a close call but maybe the 8e is the way to go for convenience (closer minimum focus distance without needing goggles) . I own a E58 F1 Noctilux and would very happily pair the 8e with it .  beautiful classic rendering . 

Edited October 1, 2022 by grahamc

[ironringer]

Excuse me for asking a basic question - could Summicron M 35mm "8 element" users tell us how to recognise that type from the more common (7 element?) versions?