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Summicron M 35 (8 element)


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5 hours ago, ironringer said:

Excuse me for asking a basic question - could Summicron M 35mm "8 element" users tell us how to recognise that type from the more common (7 element?) versions?

Wiki can help

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summicron_(I)_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:2

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https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/2_Summicron_II

 

 

then we have serial number

"I" is silver (mostly) aluminium finish, rare black paint, some in M3 with goggles

"II" is all in black anodized finish

Edited by a.noctilux
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11 hours ago, romanus53 said:

The Focustab Has That Smart Infinitiy lock

 

11 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Wiki can help

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summicron_(I)_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:2

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/2_Summicron_II

 

 

then we have serial number

"I" is silver (mostly) aluminium finish, rare black paint, some in M3 with goggles

"II" is all in black anodized finish

Hello ironringer,

You can see see an example of an Infinity lock button on the focusing tab in the second photo from the left in the above series of photos that Arnaud was nice enough to provide. It is that separate section on the camera side of the focusing tab.

By the way, you can NOT use the presence of "goggles" to determine whether a lens is version I or not since there are examples of the versions II & III known to have been delivered with "goggles".

The 7 element design is version IV.

 Best Regards,

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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On 10/2/2022 at 6:24 AM, ironringer said:

Excuse me for asking a basic question - could Summicron M 35mm "8 element" users tell us how to recognise that type from the more common (7 element?) versions?

If you mean in the physical sense the 8-Element is completely different in form. I'll assume you are fully aware of what the ubiquitous '79-'96 7 element version looks like so here is a thread which shows, very clearly, what the 8-Element looks like for the sake of comparison;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/#comment-4312043

Philip.

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Am 2.10.2022 um 07:24 schrieb ironringer:

Excuse me for asking a basic question - could Summicron M 35mm "8 element" users tell us how to recognise that type from the more common (7 element?) versions?

Luigi in post #25 above provided perfect guidance on how to physically differentiate the 8-element Summicron 35 from all other Summicron 35 lenses. BTW, the Summicron 35 version II and III had 6 elements, only the Summicron IV has 7 elements.

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2 hours ago, jankap said:

I think, that he means, if one recognize the type for the results, it brings.

This is nothing. Automatics ....

I think, that he means, if one can recognize the type "7" or "8" from the results, it brings in the pictures.

Edited by jankap
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vor 31 Minuten schrieb jankap:

I think, that he means, if one can recognize the type "7" or "8" from the results, it brings in the pictures.

Well, if he really means that, then the answer is that it will be very difficult. Stopped down, differences in the results between the various Summicron 35 lenses will be negligible, and even at full aperture it will be hard to say which shot has been taken with which lens.

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On 10/4/2022 at 4:29 PM, wizard said:

Well, if he really means that, then the answer is that it will be very difficult. Stopped down, differences in the results between the various Summicron 35 lenses will be negligible, and even at full aperture it will be hard to say which shot has been taken with which lens.

I tend to say/think the same as you.

Indeed very difficult to "prove" the superiority of one over another Summicron 35mm.

I do use all of them (...I to IV,  each type in many units/mounts ) learned to "know" their subtle differences.

How well was the creation of 35mm Summicron "I" which age so well, since 1958 👍, still top "user lens" and gaining more and more "educated users" everyday,

only the price rise is the blocking factor or maybe not, just "hype things".

 

Edited by a.noctilux
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19 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

 

Indeed very difficult to "prove" the superiority of one over another Summicron 35mm.

 

 

I found the difference between the v1 8 element- the V2, V3 and V4 quite notable. The 8 element just had a clarity and sharpness wide open the others lacked. the later ones had a type of 'steaminess' to my eye. At least the ones I owned. 8 element:

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v2 foggy bokeh:

 

 

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Thank you everyone for your clear explanations and examples, showing me/us how to identify the earlier 8 element "V1" type of the 35mm Summicron. I was interested in the physical characteristics and/or serial numbers, that are recognisable.  Someday I may see one and ask its owner how well it performs.

Jankap mentions the quality of its pictures, as a possible difference from the later V2 type. As a casual user of Leicas, and not being an expert, I doubt I would see the subtle differences. So I am satisfied with my model 11879 35mm Summicron, and my "goggles" 35mm Summaron f2.8; both are excellent lenses.

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I take pictures!

I am not interested in the lenses as they are: infinity lock design, color black and two red dots, designed by Prof. X.Y., etc. Of course the lenses differ in the pictures too, but try to repeat the exact situation a second time. A brick wall perhaps ......

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considering the performance the 8E is close to the Summilux, compared to a later version contrast and over-all quality was lower when used wide open but stopped down performance and sharpness was better towards the edges of the image circle. Late E. Puts made similar observations and provided some MTF to prove this.

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  • 7 months later...
On 10/8/2022 at 11:46 PM, TomB_tx said:

I have both the 8E and same era 2.8 Summaron - and refer the images from the Summaron.

Hi, do you mean you 'prefer' the images from the 2.8 Summaron? I've the Summaron and am thinking of getting the 8E, can you help me suggest why you prefer the Summaron?

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I am currently using M9, found nothing wrong with my Summaron but sometimes the f2.8 is lacking in dim situations (e.g. cafe, bars) and wondering if the f2 would help matters with the 1 stop difference. Thanks for your inputs.

Edited by bernstein1234
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6 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

My Summaron has higher contrast than my 8E with equivalent resolution.

I am currently using M9, found nothing wrong with my Summaron but sometimes the f2.8 is lacking in dim situations (e.g. cafe, bars) and wondering if the f2 would help matters with the 1 stop difference. Thanks for your inputs.

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