Next Reissue lens, which do you want?

[jdlaing]

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2 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Imagination; life is hard without it.

And yours is very vivid. 😃

[Huss]

Not by Leica, but the Voigtlander 28mm 3.5 would be an excellent reissue.  Tiny lens, fast enough to be versatile, with excellent optical characteristics.

And the 40mm Summicron.  Tiny, fast, excellent.

[105012]

A rigid Summicron re-issue in BP would cause me a lot of issues. You see, the problem I have is, even if my pockets are deep my arms are short, it’s so hard to get down there 😀

[adan]

13 hours ago, hdmesa said:

A lot of the lenses mentioned are not classics in the same sense as the other reissues. I think people are confusing updated lenses with a reissue.

Yes, 35 Lux pre-ASPH, steel rim + Ollux hood + removable goggles.

Hmmm - you realize that the 35s with goggles use different RF cams than 35s without goggles? The external change in magnification changes the RF geometry and math. Goggled 35s with the goggles removed won't focus correctly on any M (although f/8 DoF can save your bacon, but then what good is f/1.4?)

Leica might (or might not) be able to add a "gear-shift lever/button" of some kind to the lens - but then it wouldn't be authentic to the original any more.

8 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Leica is now in a position to issue a new run of M3 cameras, just like that. Bam! 60 years between runs, so what! You always wanted a brand new M3 but swore your life for not being born in the right era?

DS or SS? Glass pressure plate or metal? Shutter speeds 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200; or 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, (sync -->1/50), 1/60, 1/125, 1/250?

Frame selector lever - or not? DoF "indicator" on the RF patch - or not?

A lot of - variation - in M3s.

Original .91x finder (which has very different geometry than anything Leica has used in any other M - right-angle bends in the RF light path, rather than angled, and therefore bulkier than today's)? Can't just pop the M3 mechanism into an M-A body - no room any more.

See third picture here: https://www.lhsa.org/blog/2019/08/homage-to-the-immortal-leica-m3-predecessors-and-progeny-of-the-most-influential-rangefinder-35mm-camera-ever

...and compare to post-M3 RFs - very different construction, shape, volume.

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Or .85x, as was introduced for the faux-M3-cosmetics M6J (along with the "reissued" collapsible 50mm Elmar-M f/2.8)?

https://www.cameraquest.com/leicam6j.htm

50mm frameline that is always visible, regardless of focal length mounted? Or one that comes and goes like all other Ms since the M2 (again, quite different RF construction)?

Frosted-glass frameline illumination window, or more effective serrated (ever since M2)?

______________

I do think the 75 Summilux and 35 pre-ASPH Summilux v.1 have unique-enough rendering to rate consideration as reissues. Main question is whether the right glass is still available, or will they just be "approximations?" (Even Peter Karbe acknowledges the "new" 50 f/1.2 Noctilux is only an "approximate" replica of the original - couldn't get exactly-equivalent glass for that, either.)

Maybe a re-re-issue of the 50 f/2.8 collapsible (which also is optically different than the original) might be worth doing. Or the original 1950s design itself (if glass is available).

When this question has come up before, I mentioned the 35 lux pre.

And the tiny 90mm Tele-Elmarit-M (aka "Thin"). Like the 35 f/1.4, a lot of optical performance and aperture speed for its size. And given the demise of the Summarits and Elmarit-M, there is a gap there now in Leica's traditional line-up.

But since I now have both of those, I don't need re-issues, myself.

 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

35 minutes ago, adan said:

Hmmm - you realize that the 35s with goggles use different RF cams than 35s without goggles? The external change in magnification changes the RF geometry and math. Goggled 35s with the goggles removed won't focus correctly on any M (although f/8 DoF can save your bacon, but then what good is f/1.4?)

Leica might (or might not) be able to add a "gear-shift lever/button" of some kind to the lens - but then it wouldn't be authentic to the original any more.

DS or SS? Glass pressure plate or metal? Shutter speeds 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200; or 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, (sync -->1/50), 1/60, 1/125, 1/250?

Frame selector lever - or not? DoF "indicator" on the RF patch - or not?

A lot of - variation - in M3s.

Original .91x finder (which has very different geometry than anything Leica has used in any other M - right-angle bends in the RF light path, rather than angled, and therefore bulkier than today's)? Can't just pop the M3 mechanism into an M-A body - no room any more.

See third picture here: https://www.lhsa.org/blog/2019/08/homage-to-the-immortal-leica-m3-predecessors-and-progeny-of-the-most-influential-rangefinder-35mm-camera-ever

...and compare to post-M3 RFs - very different construction, shape, volume.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Or .85x, as was introduced for the faux-M3-cosmetics M6J (along with the "reissued" collapsible 50mm Elmar-M f/2.8)?

https://www.cameraquest.com/leicam6j.htm

50mm frameline that is always visible, regardless of focal length mounted? Or one that comes and goes like all other Ms since the M2 (again, quite different RF construction)?

Frosted-glass frameline illumination window, or more effective serrated (ever since M2)?

______________

I do think the 75 Summilux and 35 pre-ASPH Summilux v.1 have unique-enough rendering to rate consideration as reissues. Main question is whether the right glass is still available, or will they just be "approximations?" (Even Peter Karbe acknowledges the "new" 50 f/1.2 Noctilux is only an "approximate" replica of the original - couldn't get exactly-equivalent glass for that, either.)

Maybe a re-re-issue of the 50 f/2.8 collapsible (which also is optically different than the original) might be worth doing. Or the original 1950s design itself (if glass is available).

When this question has come up before, I mentioned the 35 lux pre.

And the tiny 90mm Tele-Elmarit-M (aka "Thin"). Like the 35 f/1.4, a lot of optical performance and aperture speed for its size. And given the demise of the Summarits and Elmarit-M, there is a gap there now in Leica's traditional line-up.

But since I now have both of those, I don't need re-issues, myself.

 

No need to go Rooster about it. Are all the M3 you are listing “reissues” or a mere continuum? 

No matter; Reissue or Continuum, my theoretical 2024 M3 will be a full member of the M3 family, DNA and all. Because, as you have alteady proved: each M3 “reissue” has had its own twist, and so will the next.

[rramesh]

I very happy with the new releases from Voigtlander. 50 f/1, 35 f/2, 28 f.2, 40 f/2.8 to name a few. And then we have the ones from Lens Light. All at decent price points.

Leica should continue innovating and not get into the business of 'remakes'. 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

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3 minutes ago, rramesh said:

I very happy with the new releases from Voigtlander. 50 f/1, 35 f/2, 28 f.2, 40 f/2.8 to name a few. And then we have the ones from Lens Light. All at decent price points.

Leica should continue innovating and not get into the business of 'remakes'. 

The innovation is happening sideways; the SL, Q, M11, M12... the M lenses is something else. Who never wished to be able buy a brand new summicron collapsible instead of all the scratched bottom feeds we seem to get on ebay? Summarit f1.5, stellar lens but alas, no mint samples to be found, only the good old fogged and scratched ones that seem to lead its reputation of being a “poor performer”. Believe me, a mint summarit f1.5 is the equal of a mint summilux 50mm V1, which is equally hard to find. Those lenses have made history and are totally responsible of what you are getting from Copycat voigtlander. I’d buy a “reissue” summilux 50mm V1 in a whim, and no, I’ll never touch a voigtlander copy, because that’s what they are; copies, reverse engineered lenses, economical choices... I’m not into that. Leica deserves to reap what it sow. No place for copycats and bottom feeders.

[rramesh]

15 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The innovation is happening sideways; the SL, Q, M11, M12... the M lenses is something else. Who never wished to be able buy a brand new summicron collapsible instead of all the scratched bottom feeds we seem to get on ebay? Summarit f1.5, stellar lens but alas, no mint samples to be found, only the good old fogged and scratched ones that seem to lead its reputation of being a “poor performer”. Believe me, a mint summarit f1.5 is the equal of a mint summilux 50mm V1, which is equally hard to find. Those lenses have made history and are totally responsible of what you are getting from Copycat voigtlander. I’d buy a “reissue” summilux 50mm V1 in a whim, and no, I’ll never touch a voigtlander copy, because that’s what they are; copies, reverse engineered lenses, economical choices... I’m not into that. Leica deserves to reap what it sow. No place for copycats and bottom feeders.

For a collector, even if there is a Leica remake, the original will always be the one most sought after and it will command high prices. The new one will always be priced as a remake.

For a photographer, it's what works for the budget, for the moment and for the desired look.

For a viewer, shown two photographs taken by two different lenses, he/she will be hard pressed to pick correctly.

And frankly, the ones from Voigtlander and Light Lens are really good. Note also that some early Leica lenses were based on Zeiss designs. Innovation sometimes is built on competitor designs. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by rramesh

[Flu]

50mm F1 Noct. V4 with the squarish built in hood. 100pc limited edition in silver.

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, rramesh said:

The new one will always be priced as a remake.

Ummm...https://www.schouten-select.com/index.php/products/leica/leica-50mm-f1-2-noctilux-m-asph-silver-box-extremely-rare-3210.html

[darylgo]

50mm f1.4 R ver 1.   The glow is outstanding, in addition the lens can be used with the 2x R and 2x Apo R for different looks. Reissue in safari, 100 units. Reissue black aluminum, 1800, perhaps more.  

[pedaes]

19 minutes ago, darylgo said:

R

I think anything 'R' is a wish to far (especially in a M-lenses thread)! 

[IkarusJohn]

How about that most rare and sought after lens, the Apochromatic 35 Summilux …

[darylgo]

35 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I think anything 'R' is a wish to far (especially in a M-lenses thread)! 

Agree and (agree).  It’s a fantasy thread, mine wondered a bit.
Seriously, the cinema guys are buying the R lenses for good reason. 

[lct]

42 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

How about that most rare and sought after lens, the Apochromatic 35 Summilux …

Never seen that beast i admit. Any link?

[rramesh]

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

Ummm...https://www.schouten-select.com/index.php/products/leica/leica-50mm-f1-2-noctilux-m-asph-silver-box-extremely-rare-3210.html

I don't believe the original was in silver chrome. Hence this is a collectible. Plus it's a limited run of 100 copies.

Edited June 27, 2022 by rramesh

[Anbaric]

4 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The innovation is happening sideways; the SL, Q, M11, M12... the M lenses is something else. Who never wished to be able buy a brand new summicron collapsible instead of all the scratched bottom feeds we seem to get on ebay? Summarit f1.5, stellar lens but alas, no mint samples to be found, only the good old fogged and scratched ones that seem to lead its reputation of being a “poor performer”. Believe me, a mint summarit f1.5 is the equal of a mint summilux 50mm V1, which is equally hard to find. Those lenses have made history and are totally responsible of what you are getting from Copycat voigtlander. I’d buy a “reissue” summilux 50mm V1 in a whim, and no, I’ll never touch a voigtlander copy, because that’s what they are; copies, reverse engineered lenses, economical choices... I’m not into that. Leica deserves to reap what it sow. No place for copycats and bottom feeders.

The Summarit is a rebadged Xenon licensed to Leitz by Schneider, who had in turn based it on a Taylor Hobson design. A 'copycat' lens, if you will.

[budjames]

21 hours ago, jdlaing said:

What do you think needs updating?

I returned mine for credit because the sharpness was very disappointing. My Super Elmar 18mm is way sharper than the Tri Elmar at any of the three available focal lengths. Mechanically, the lens is excellent with typical Leica build quality, however, after shooting Leica primes, the Tri Elmar was not cutting it.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

[pippy]

1 hour ago, rramesh said:

I don't believe the original...(50mm f1.2 Noctilux)...was in silver chrome. Hence this is a collectible. Plus it's a limited run of 100 copies.

Just FWIW...

Whilst I don't think that any of the original general-release 50mm f1.2 lenses were in Silver-Chrome finish I have read that some of the prototypes for the 1967 Noctilux were made in that finish. Here, by way of illustration, is a quote taken from the web-site of an auction-house who conducted the sale of one such example some 16 years ago;

"Rare Leica Noctilux 50mm f1.2 Prototype silver chrome lens for M mount, with front and rear caps...The Leitz Noctilux 50mm f1.2 came out in 1967 as the first lens for 35mm cameras available in the civilian market, containing aspheric elements. In ten years of production only a total of approximately 2500 units of the 1.2/50 lens were completed before 1976 when the then new Noctilux 1/50 was introduced. There were three series of test lenses made before production began, numbers 0000659 to 0000663, 0000725 to 0000734 and 0000767 to 0000770. Of these prototype lenses, which date back to 1963/64, black as well as silver chrome lenses are known to exist."

For anyone who wishes to see the original page from the auction here is the link;

https://bid.igavelauctions.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=741873

Interesting that there doesn't seem to have been any takers even although the starting-price ($15,000 plus premium) was far below the prices that the recent S-C lenses are fetching...

Philip.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pippy]

32 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

The Summarit is a rebadged Xenon licensed to Leitz by Schneider, who had in turn based it on a Taylor Hobson design. A 'copycat' lens, if you will.

Absolutely.

Also, contrary to what was written in the post which you quoted, it IS possible to find non-scratched, non-fogged, non-fungi'd Summarits and for 'normal' prices to boot. For example; I bought one (which is optically perfect and has a super-clean 'body') last January for £399.

There were about 74,643 of these lenses produced (according to wiki) and I'd hazard a guess that more will have survived in good nick than might at first be assumed. If such is the case then perhaps Leica might find it difficult to find sales for a new release in sufficient numbers to justify such an offering?

Philip.