Totally feeling sad and heart broken. Bye Leica...

[Ko.Fe.]

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7 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I like them as much as everyone else.

Do only reason we talk about dentists is that in the 80-90's the only people interested in Leica where people that can afford it. I was a running joke.

Many could afford. Many are buying $13K fridges, $8K bikes and $XXK-XXXK boats. But those who are buying it are expecting and demanding local and responsive service. 

Original SL is very affordable now and lovely camera. But service...

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[M11 for me]

Isn‘t Canon simply the best and most reliable company with its CPS? I have a Platinum membership and thats a great thing in the Pro world. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by M11 for me

[Simone_DF]

4 hours ago, caissa said:

One of the obvious weaknesses is that flash support was bad with Leica cameras (now solved with godox). So I took the obvious solution and added a S1R to the SL2 for better flash features. And I continue in this way, one or more Panasonic cameras for fall-back (S5, S1R),

Slightly off topic: isn't the Panasonic mount different though? Does it trigger in manual mode on a SL? Just curious, because I went with a Godox flash with Nikon mount, but a Godox with Panasonic mount would make more sense to me

[abphoto]

Sorry to hear you are leaving Leica.

I am a full time pro and shoot with only Leica M digitals. I have 2 M 10s and an M 10 Mono. Moved form Canon in 2015 with absolutely no regrets. Loved it when Canon had a CPS service center here in the Chicago area, Itasca. It was there until the 1980s and then they brought it back in the 2000s and it is now closed again. It is a great service and do wish Leica had something similar. I would drop cameras or lenses off, get loaners and pick the repaired cameras up a few days later. Doesn't get better than that.

With Canon I kinda needed it with all the issues I had, I was doing work for Nato in 2012 and had a complete shutter failure. Before CPS opened in Itasca I had a 1DsMKIII loaner show up from their center in NJ dead on arrival. Had a bunch of other issues like a mirror falling out and much more. Even with the recall of my original MM and M-E I had far more issues with my Canons than I have had with my Leica's. But I do agree that Canons CPS service is really good. 

Leica M really fits with the way I see and work. I do commercial/advertising and shoot a lot of portraits both environmental and formal. I specialize in healthcare so a lot of annual reports and black tie corporate events. I have even done runway fashion and some automobile photography. 

Some sample to see where i am coming from. All shot with a Leica digital Ms

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Edited June 23, 2022 by abphoto

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Does it trigger in manual mode on a SL? Just curious, because I went with a Godox flash with Nikon mount, but a Godox with Panasonic mount would make more sense to me

they are all different. the pins are all different.

Olympus Panasonic flash have the Four Thirds mount that work native on S5, you can use this off camera flashes i60 Nissan with Leica SF C1 controller in TTL

Nikon hotshoe may look the same, but it is not. Different whirring from Leica , some pins contacts are crossed.

 

[Jean-Michel]

When you buy a digital Leica, you know, or ought to know, that any repairs to the equipment is likely to be performed in either Wetzlar, or New-Jersey. You need to be prepared for the possible loss of use of the equipment for some time. The film cameras basically almost never need any repair, and when a repair was needed there were quite a few repair shops able to do the work. With digital, the cost of the specialized equipment required to diagnose and repair such cameras and lenses is likely much too high for an independent shop to take on that type of work. 

When I had to get my M9 serviced due to the sensor issue (twice as the first time the new sensors were not yet available), and my M-P when it developed a jammed RF roller, I sent my cameras via my dealer, that eliminated any kind of cross-border issues. I do no know if that speeded up the work or not, but I did not have to wait an unreasonable amount of time to get the cameras back.

If you are using your cameras and lenses professionally, then you know that you must have a backup system for everything. I am now essentially retired and still own backup stuff. When the M-P went for service, the M9, was used, etc., etc.

I have only owned my SL2 for a few months, so I have no real user experience with it, but the camera seems extreme well made and I do not expect it to fail anytime soon. If and when it does, then the are Ms available to me, and even a couple of older but perfectly good Canon and Lumix cameras now gathering dust.

Getting much faster servicing from Leica would be very welcome, and i imagine that they may be working on that, or so I hope.

[LocalHero1953]

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15 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

Getting much faster servicing from Leica would be very welcome, and i imagine that they may be working on that, or so I hope.

Sadly I think their service times are getting longer. About 9 years ago I sent a Summicron-M 90 for calibration and it took 6 weeks. It was roughly the same when I sent a Summicron-M 75 for rebuilding after I dropped it about 5-6 years ago. My Summicron-SL 90 went back with a stiff focus ring about 3 years ago and took about 8 weeks (including a second trip to Wetzlar because Leica London decided when it first came back that the job had not been done properly). My Summicron-SL 75 is now at Wetzlar because it froze during the last firmware update, and I've been told to expect 3 months.

[frame-it]

7 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I like them as much as everyone else.

Do only reason we talk about dentists is that in the 80-90's the only people interested in Leica where people that can afford it. I was a running joke.

its not a funny joke.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

16 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

As an amateur myself, and given that Leica's primary market is amateurs, I cannot see the logic for allowing only professionals to have access to what should be normal good service. The priority should be the other way round.

Why should dentists (and, ahem, retired geologists) be barred from having decent service, paid for or not?

I’m not talking about normal good service here. I agree with you completely that Leica needs to have a better service attitude for all it’s customers. Leica’s service is its biggest downside in that you pay big dollars for a camera and it takes MONTHS to repair. Not good enough.

I’m talking about an expedited service system for working professionals, if Leica are even interested in that market. They sure harp on about how their cameras have been used by professionals to take some of the worlds most iconic photos. But that’s just marketing. Amateurs (which includes me now I’m 90% retired) should expect a turnaround of a few weeks. It’s a PITA but not mission critical. There’s no real excuse for how long it takes now. Leica say it takes years to train a tech. Their rubbish service times have been happening for at least a decade.

It is for working shooters and being able to have a camera back in less than a week is important when feeding your kids depends on it. This is pretty normal. If your printer at home breaks, you take it in to the shop and they send it off. If the printer in an office breaks a tech comes out the next day.

It’s not either/or. You can have both.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Slightly off topic: isn't the Panasonic mount different though? Does it trigger in manual mode on a SL? Just curious, because I went with a Godox flash with Nikon mount, but a Godox with Panasonic mount would make more sense to me

You can order the Leica mount now…..

Reason was a Godox trigger for the S1R etc was available if you wanted HSS and TTL from your Godox triggers and L mount glass. Now that a Leica version is available it’s a non event. Mind you I have never used studio flashes in TTL, ever. Tried it and immediately went back to reliable, consistant manual mode. In the studio I need to be in total control. TTL is a blunt hammer and unpredictable with a dynamic subject. I only use TTL with a hotshoe speedlight. I do hope Godox does that. Their speedlights are excellent. Especially with the lithium option.

Gordon

[hamey]

Good point Flash, I'am from Melbourne and years ago we had a Leica service centre in Melbourne which did a couple of light repairs for me and it was really good.

The only time my Leica had to go back to Germany was my R4 MOT, after 3 months it returned as a R4, it worked ok for a few years but now and then it got hiccups.

Most likely nowadays ALL LEICA GEAR goes back to Germany for attention, I was told the other day that  Camera Clinic (authorised Leica service) here in Melbourne is no longer doing major services.

I inquired about getting my F6 repaired and they informed me that they no longer repair Nikons.

Lucky for me is that I have 3 Fujis and if one fails I still have the other two as back up.

I'am glad that Photography is only a hobby for me.

Cheers.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 hour ago, hamey said:

Good point Flash, I'am from Melbourne and years ago we had a Leica service centre in Melbourne which did a couple of light repairs for me and it was really good.

The only time my Leica had to go back to Germany was my R4 MOT, after 3 months it returned as a R4, it worked ok for a few years but now and then it got hiccups.

Most likely nowadays ALL LEICA GEAR goes back to Germany for attention, I was told the other day that  Camera Clinic (authorised Leica service) here in Melbourne is no longer doing major services.

I inquired about getting my F6 repaired and they informed me that they no longer repair Nikons.

Lucky for me is that I have 3 Fujis and if one fails I still have the other two as back up.

I'am glad that Photography is only a hobby for me.

Cheers.

Camera Clinic still do mechanical repairs but not electronic ones. That means ALL modern bodies except the M-A and M lenses go to Germany.

I’m not sure if it’s changed but a big part of the problem is all repairs are sent to CC which assesses them (wasting time in their que) then they get shipped as a batch to Germany, so your SL2 might spend 6-8 weeks in Oz before even arriving in Wetzlar. Maybe it’s changed but last time I needed a repair on my SL16-35, which I dropped (not warranty), it took 12 weeks for the quote to arrive and another 15 days to get back to me. The delays were getting the damn thing to Germany in the first place.

Gordon

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I’m not talking about normal good service here. I agree with you completely that Leica needs to have a better service attitude for all it’s customers. Leica’s service is its biggest downside in that you pay big dollars for a camera and it takes MONTHS to repair. Not good enough.

I’m talking about an expedited service system for working professionals, if Leica are even interested in that market. They sure harp on about how their cameras have been used by professionals to take some of the worlds most iconic photos. But that’s just marketing. Amateurs (which includes me now I’m 90% retired) should expect a turnaround of a few weeks. It’s a PITA but not mission critical. There’s no real excuse for how long it takes now. Leica say it takes years to train a tech. Their rubbish service times have been happening for at least a decade.

It is for working shooters and being able to have a camera back in less than a week is important when feeding your kids depends on it. This is pretty normal. If your printer at home breaks, you take it in to the shop and they send it off. If the printer in an office breaks a tech comes out the next day.

It’s not either/or. You can have both.

Gordon

I have no problem with professionals being offered a service that amateurs do not need and that does not disadvantage them (e.g. rapid replacements). I would not be happy with Leica offering a service that is wanted/needed by all (speedy turnaround) only to certified professionals, and excluding all those in their main target market. If it's a free service then an amateur has already paid the same money as a professional and deserves as good a response. If it's a service paid for by a fee that allows Leica to deliver it, then amateurs' money would help pay for it as well. 

I would rather Leica offered a single good service for all. If there has to be a paid-for expedited service then it should be available to anyone willing to pay for it - a service contract.

I don't think the printer example works well. If I paid as much for my printer at home as for the one in one particular office I look after then I would expect a tech to visit me at home as well. Whether a tech visits you or not is down to how much you paid for it in the first place and whether you have a service contract, not whether you use the printer for professional work.

Edited June 24, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Fotoklaus]

I don´t know why Leica is not employing a few more people for their service. Or just could lend professional users equipment for the time of service.

Leicas big name comes from superb quality, reliability and superb service. If there is just a premium price left it might not pay out.

[frame-it]

12 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

I don´t know why Leica is not employing a few more people for their service

maybe that's what the L2 Partnership is all about

[wanderingkiwi]

Shit customer service seems to be par for the course when dealing with high-end luxury companies (particularly European ones). I've had some interesting experiences buying European firearms. Great build quality, but they're almost always f*cken over-engineered, and good luck when something goes wrong. Simply getting hold of a parts diagram or getting in touch with a technician at the factory is an exercise in futility. 

I've been a long time user of Leica sport optics (scopes, binoculars, rangefinders etc). While Leica Sport Optics division was once notorious for poor customer service (at least compared to their competition), they turned a page a few years ago, and they now seem to be on the right track. All of their sport optics are currently being manufactured in Portugal, and from what I understand, there are repair facilities in the USA. 

So perhaps that's the key? Start manufacturing Leica cameras in Portugal lol. That'll really piss some people off.  

 

[tom0511]

It is sad that service has been so bad in your case. 

I can only talk about Leica Germany (I live in Germany) and I have received very good and fast help in the past.

Maybe write a letter to some responsible person at Leica?

Regarding AF....yes, latest Canons and Sonys and Nikons are a step above. Thats why I also added a Canon R5 for sports and action photography. I do however prefer the SL2 handling and output for everything else.

[Photoworks]

not sure what the solution can be. it is reality the SL lenses are good. but maybe overly complicated?

All SL stuff needs to go back to Germany . I hear that part of it is that every single lens has a customized firmware of each lens. 
The specific firmware get written with calibration data.

 

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[laowai_]

4 hours ago, wanderingkiwi said:

Shit customer service seems to be par for the course when dealing with high-end luxury companies (particularly European ones). [...] Great build quality, but they're almost always [...] over-engineered, and good luck when something goes wrong. [...]

So perhaps that's the key? Start manufacturing Leica cameras in Portugal lol. That'll really piss some people off.  

 

 

I used to work for the North American subsidiary of a company headquartered in Germany (industrial products, not consumer products or high-end luxury products).

For many years we had similar, if not worse issues with service/repair/calibration. Turnaround time was the worst in the industry, there was a lot of re-work, sometimes repaired equipment was sent to the wrong customer, sometimes equipment got lost...

So we brought in an external consultant. He streamlined the process, established clear objectives and means to track the objective on a daily basis. Spare parts were ordered from HQ according to the actual numbers and forecast data (as opposed to what the service managers thought they might need). We literally installed red lights that went off when a repair was in the queue longer than the internal targeted turnaround time. 

Within a few month the department went from worst in the industry to best in the industry without any extra expense or staffing. The downside is that not all service technicians were happy with the changes and I think some even quit.

Some customers loved it, most customers took fast turnaround as a given and much fewer customers complained.  

 

[Slender]

On 6/23/2022 at 3:31 PM, Photoworks said:

I have been using 2 SL2 for professional use daily, probably 1000-5000 every day for the last 2.5 years.

They didn't let me down mechanically, but I would do the same if I need to send them in for service. A couple of S5 for a professional are not a big deal, plus for video they have a good microphone connection that the SL2 designers forgot all about it.

Could you show them? any cool looking patina?

Edited June 24, 2022 by Slender