BernardC Posted July 12, 2022 Share #321 Posted July 12, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, Aperture 2 said: Why always so many angry people in the forums ? I will never understand…so sad ! 🤔 Most discussions in this forum are courteous and informative. This thread, however, is perfectly designed to be polarizing: it starts with a controversial premise that was never backed by any evidence, and then it was fueled by people just complaining about various things, and telling us what they would do, if only they were "in charge." That being said, the thread seems to be dying-off. Part of it is age and repetition, part of it is the coincidental release of Leica's financials. This really put a damper on the notion that Leica doesn't know what it's doing. It's natural for people to hold strong opinions about their favourite brands. We feel that we are their most important customers, and that our wants and needs are crucial to their success. On the other hand, a friend once explained: "Leica is at its worse when they listen to customers, and at its best when they go their own way." 9 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12, 2022 Posted July 12, 2022 Hi BernardC, Take a look here L-system - Why poor sales?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hansvons Posted July 13, 2022 Share #322 Posted July 13, 2022 11 hours ago, BernardC said: "Leica is at its worse when they listen to customers, and at its best when they go their own way." Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted July 13, 2022 Share #323 Posted July 13, 2022 I agree, with the caveat that they are at their best when they listen only to me. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 14, 2022 Share #324 Posted July 14, 2022 4 hours ago, jbl375 said: What I mentioned here is Leica fails to launch 21mm lens to SL2 and the firmware upgrade creates turmoil. These are the fact. Discussion is based on fact but not personal impression. Indeed, and the fact is that the SL 21 was already two years delayed at the time you bought your SL2. Nobody is debating this. In fact, the subject has been discussed by many here on the forum over that two years, with some very frustrated forum members and system owners, not hired writers. Leica dealers are also well aware of delays, especially with recent supply chain issues, etc, and never make promises about timing of Leica new gear releases. As you wrote elsewhere that 21mm is your favorite focal length, it seems you might have inquired if there was an SL21 available before purchase, especially as a seasoned Leica owner. As for the rest, you’re the one who just wrote here that your camera was just “a toy” for you and that you planned to spread your frustration with Leica on other forums. Free speech and all that, but the facts won’t be new to anyone here. You’re hardly the first to share concerns here about Leica gear, and especially Leica service, as I’ve experienced myself. I now choose third party service when possible; we each have our own ways of dealing with frustrations. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted July 18, 2022 Share #325 Posted July 18, 2022 just got this via Leica Thailand: >>> We want to reward you for your love of photography. As a member of the Leica family 🔴📸 We're offering you an exclusive deal. Receive a savings of 23,500 THB when purchasing a Leica SL camera and a savings of 18,200 THB when purchasing a Leica SL Prime Lens. You can even share your passion with friends by inviting them to enjoy this exclusive offer. You'll find everything you need to know about these savings in your Leica Account on club.leica-camera.com Discover new perspectives and enhance your photographic experience. Activate your vouchers now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted July 18, 2022 Share #326 Posted July 18, 2022 We also had a trade-up offer in Holland. Well I overspent but should have bought the SL2 instead of the S5 - quality is good, ergonomics are not in the Leica family. (by the way, IBIS is NOT needed by me) My brother in law was around, I showed him some pictures on the S5 camera; then went to show how it worked. Failed. Sorry. Its alright he said, my Olympy camera came with a 500 page BOOK, I don’t know either how it works. He liked my M-camera & said he would like to step over - just to enjoy taking pictures again. Nur das Wesentliche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snommis Posted July 18, 2022 Share #327 Posted July 18, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, frame-it said: just got this via Leica Thailand: >>> We want to reward you for your love of photography. As a member of the Leica family 🔴📸 We're offering you an exclusive deal. Receive a savings of 23,500 THB when purchasing a Leica SL camera and a savings of 18,200 THB when purchasing a Leica SL Prime Lens. You can even share your passion with friends by inviting them to enjoy this exclusive offer. You'll find everything you need to know about these savings in your Leica Account on club.leica-camera.com Discover new perspectives and enhance your photographic experience. Activate your vouchers now. As a member of the Leica Family, we're pleased to offer you a limited time offer. Receive a savings of 650 USD when purchasing a Leica SL camera or bundle and a savings of 500 USD when purchasing a Leica SL Prime Lens.We invite you to share your love of photography with friends by inviting them to enjoy this special offer. Learn more through your Leica Account. Activate your personal vouchers through your Leica Account. I just got it as well and I am trying to decide if I want to get into this system or get a Z9 and go mirrorless and continue to dump my Nikon glass completely. This offer has pict my interests even more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted July 18, 2022 Share #328 Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) SL2-S price has gone up 490€ since launch. Now a 650€ coupon = a mere 160€ discount…. Over 4500 or 6000€😪 this is quite lame. Edited July 18, 2022 by nicci78 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted July 18, 2022 Share #329 Posted July 18, 2022 Considering that Leica announced the SL21mm in 2018 on their roadmap for a 2020 release, I would say that SL owners have every right to be disappointed in Leica. Covid, is not an excuse for this kind of delay, especially considering that the engineering is done, they just need to build them. If you are going to put out a line of camera's and roadmaps, then this leads to customer expectations. Leica, has made no announcements, no revised road maps, no anything... The system's poor sales is caused by LEICA and NOBODY ELSE... They seem content to ignore the marketplace's desire for these products, and in this case, the customer's have very right to be pissed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted July 18, 2022 Share #330 Posted July 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Planetwide said: Considering that Leica announced the SL21mm in 2018 on their roadmap for a 2020 release, I would say that SL owners have every right to be disappointed in Leica. Covid, is not an excuse for this kind of delay, especially considering that the engineering is done, they just need to build them. If you are going to put out a line of camera's and roadmaps, then this leads to customer expectations. Leica, has made no announcements, no revised road maps, no anything... The system's poor sales is caused by LEICA and NOBODY ELSE... They seem content to ignore the marketplace's desire for these products, and in this case, the customer's have very right to be pissed. I’ve had my limit and will be offloading all my L kit at my local dealer this weekend. I’ve waited far too long to see this system evolve the way it should have. No tilt shift, no macro, no wide angle primes. Enough is enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted July 18, 2022 Share #331 Posted July 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, jplomley said: I’ve had my limit and will be offloading all my L kit at my local dealer this weekend. I’ve waited far too long to see this system evolve the way it should have. No tilt shift, no macro, no wide angle primes. Enough is enough. Don't blame you one bit. There are lots of other choices, I use my R5's for most of my commercial work nowadays. TS lenses, adapters, and great lenses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakinMemories Posted July 18, 2022 Share #332 Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, jplomley said: I’ve had my limit and will be offloading all my L kit at my local dealer this weekend. I’ve waited far too long to see this system evolve the way it should have. No tilt shift, no macro, no wide angle primes. Enough is enough. Good luck... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGA Posted July 18, 2022 Share #333 Posted July 18, 2022 Leica have increased their prices across all products (again) and surprise surprise 'special' people (ie anyone on their database of customers) are being given an opportunity to purchase a lens or body at the 'old' price- - which is a discount for being 'special'.... forgive me for chuckling. Oh and I just learned today that some people purchase cameras for lenses that are going to be made sometime in the future and not for the lenses and bodies that are available today) and then sell them because sometime in the future is too far way - and pandemics don't interrupt supply chains or shouldn't when it comes to Leica... always good for a morning laugh these types of threads. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted July 19, 2022 Share #334 Posted July 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Planetwide said: Considering that Leica announced the SL21mm in 2018 on their roadmap for a 2020 release, I would say that SL owners have every right to be disappointed in Leica. Covid, is not an excuse for this kind of delay, especially considering that the engineering is done, they just need to build them. Based on what Peter Karbe presented in early 2021, the engineering for the 21mm APO SL primes is far from complete. In the cutaway diagrams, you can see that all the lenses released up until now has full featured lens mount details. The slides show that the 24mm is mostly complete but the 21mm is nowhere near complete. My expectation is that, when Leica announced their roadmap in 2018, they had done the theoretical optical designs but it was not something that was ready for production. There’s a lot of engineering that needs to happen in order to bring a theoretical design to physical form. I’m not trying to make excuses for Leica. I too am waiting for the 24mm and 21mm APO SL but based on the little information that I can gleam, it doesn’t look to me like the 21mm will be ready any time soon. If the slide is any indication, we’ll see the 24mm APO well before we see the 21mm APO. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333217-l-system-why-poor-sales/?do=findComment&comment=4473201'>More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted July 19, 2022 Share #335 Posted July 19, 2022 9 hours ago, jplomley said: I’ve had my limit and will be offloading all my L kit at my local dealer this weekend. I’ve waited far too long to see this system evolve the way it should have. No tilt shift, no macro, no wide angle primes. Enough is enough. What mirrorless mount has a native first party tilt shift? None. Which camera are you going to buy, an old DLSR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted July 19, 2022 Share #336 Posted July 19, 2022 17 minutes ago, Simone_DF said: What mirrorless mount has a native first party tilt shift? None. Which camera are you going to buy, an old DLSR? but with a T/S lens the user will most probably be in manual focus mode, in which case Canon R and nikon Z are fine with their own adapters, dunno about sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted July 19, 2022 Share #337 Posted July 19, 2022 19 minutes ago, frame-it said: but with a T/S lens the user will most probably be in manual focus mode, in which case Canon R and nikon Z are fine with their own adapters, dunno about sony. Then what is the difference between adapting it to the SL? Sony doesn't have a first party T/S either. So far the only native mirrorless option is the Laowa, released for all brands including L mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted July 19, 2022 Share #338 Posted July 19, 2022 41 minutes ago, Simone_DF said: Then what is the difference between adapting it to the SL? Sony doesn't have a first party T/S either. So far the only native mirrorless option is the Laowa, released for all brands including L mount. Canon TS-E lenses are very good. I suppose for some people it has to have the name Leica. Then you have an older Leica 28mm for R mount and still not made by Leica.... The beauty of mirrorless is the option to use the lens and they work very well. At this point all T?S lenses are M focus. Canon is developing an AF version, but with all the nobs it is most likely still be used in M-focus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted July 19, 2022 Share #339 Posted July 19, 2022 48 minutes ago, Simone_DF said: Then what is the difference between adapting it to the SL? ask the person you replied to 1 hour ago, Simone_DF said: What mirrorless mount has a native first party tilt shift? None. Which camera are you going to buy, an old DLSR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted July 19, 2022 Share #340 Posted July 19, 2022 vor 12 Stunden schrieb jplomley: I’ve had my limit and will be offloading all my L kit at my local dealer this weekend. I’ve waited far too long to see this system evolve the way it should have. No tilt shift, no macro, no wide angle primes. Enough is enough. IN regards of T/S they are manual Focus anyways - so you could either use R T/S lens, or Nikon T/S without any real disadvantage IMO. If you need/want AF for your 21mm lens then its disappointing to wait so long. I use the M21/3.4 which works fine on both the M11 and the SL2. I do however use a Canon R5 for action photography (because of the better AF, and the 70200/2.8 and 100-500mm). For other things I prefer the SL2 system. To which system will you switch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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