setuporg Posted June 9, 2022 Share #101 Posted June 9, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) We really need a “sad” reaction to various things… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Hi setuporg, Take a look here M11 adopts the Japanese~American look to color science. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hdmesa Posted June 9, 2022 Share #102 Posted June 9, 2022 A new member with 2 posts that doesn't like the M11. I'm shocked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted June 11, 2022 Share #103 Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) I was just looking at some files, having processed Lumix files (can't get more Japanese than that?), and noticed that:😏 My M240 out of camera colours are tending towards to the output of the S5 in tonality of the greens. Pleasant in all aspects. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The DNG however is bland, and less nice in all aspects - ...The DNG blandness disappears once you push the 'develop' button in LRc (= auto exposure). Then it tends towards the OOC JPG. here the 'developed' image: So the question I have , is: to what are we referring when we talk about "the Leica Colours"? I'm happy with the M10-R, but it takes time to learn the new colour and detail sensitivity. It is imho just like a new lens. It is sharper, has more contrast and a higher colour fidelity. You need to get acquainted how it draws. My personal dislike of many modern lenses is only the CA that is often high. Luckily sensors have only improvements. Edited June 11, 2022 by Alberti Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The DNG however is bland, and less nice in all aspects - ...The DNG blandness disappears once you push the 'develop' button in LRc (= auto exposure). Then it tends towards the OOC JPG. here the 'developed' image: So the question I have , is: to what are we referring when we talk about "the Leica Colours"? I'm happy with the M10-R, but it takes time to learn the new colour and detail sensitivity. It is imho just like a new lens. It is sharper, has more contrast and a higher colour fidelity. You need to get acquainted how it draws. My personal dislike of many modern lenses is only the CA that is often high. Luckily sensors have only improvements. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333040-m11-adopts-the-japanese~american-look-to-color-science/?do=findComment&comment=4451963'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 11, 2022 Share #104 Posted June 11, 2022 Not really. Colours are subjective. For me this has a blue cast. And the top one a Cyan one. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted June 11, 2022 Share #105 Posted June 11, 2022 The bottom one is not too bad isn't it? I rely on the camera, ain't got the colour monkey. I do have a colour temperature meter, that sometimes is a great help. In blue skies. Under the trees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 11, 2022 Share #106 Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Alberti said: The bottom one is not too bad isn't it? Depends if you want to show the reality or the way you see or remember it . Unless the mill is blue and black, I prefer what you call DNG which I find more natural but it's me . Is it your DNG file converted by Apple Preview? Just curious. Edited June 11, 2022 by lct 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 11, 2022 Share #107 Posted June 11, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) The problem with this image is that the camera has picked up IR light. That makes the grass too yellow, so you (or LR) compensated by shifting the colour balance to cool, which, in turn, makes the windmill too blue. Which brings me to the following brainflash: All M cameras have an IR component in their colour rendering (hence the skin tones complaints) but the M11 has the most effective IR filter of all. So the basic colour rendering shifts to neutral (more conform with other cameras with more effective IR filtering) and it has the best skin tones of all M cameras. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted June 11, 2022 Share #108 Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/6/2022 at 1:18 AM, adan said: The research suggests that there may be many possible influences on how color is perceived. Possibly with ethic, national-origin or geographical components - but also gender and language. Just want to highlight this book by an Italian graphic designer, Chromorama https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/316056/chromorama/9780241573792.html It may be of some interest and it's somewhat related to this topic. It's not a technical manual, and it's a very enjoyable book. It's been available for a couple of years in Italian and Spanish, an English version is coming this November. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted June 11, 2022 Share #109 Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) I see now what you mean. I had expected the M10-R also to have the new generation better IR-absorbing cover glass, but there is some Italian-flag left over in my 20mm Russar lens tho. But maybe . . Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (this m240 not m10-R but the content is so nice) Nice green? Edited June 11, 2022 by Alberti 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (this m240 not m10-R but the content is so nice) Nice green? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333040-m11-adopts-the-japanese~american-look-to-color-science/?do=findComment&comment=4452055'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 11, 2022 Share #110 Posted June 11, 2022 This is the correct white balance, taken from the white on the windmill. See what happens to the Greens? The sky is shifted to Cyan as well. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333040-m11-adopts-the-japanese~american-look-to-color-science/?do=findComment&comment=4452056'>More sharing options...
Alberti Posted June 11, 2022 Share #111 Posted June 11, 2022 Adan; Of course language plays a part. Just from memory: Eskimo's have 25 words for the white of snow, to depict all stages, and others just don't see it, not even trappers. There is even a difference between color and colour. [I prefer the first]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted June 11, 2022 Share #112 Posted June 11, 2022 That is a great change. I have had such results too in processing. But thought 😙 it too yellow; because out in the field the sky makes it a bit bluer, in my subjective memory that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 11, 2022 Share #113 Posted June 11, 2022 I would take the one with the correct windmill and work on the greens, not too easy, either with the grading tool on a selection, or go into LAB and put two versions on a blending layer and split the sliders. IR contamination is a nightmare in colour processing. I learned the hard way when on Safari with the M240 . Total and in some cases irrecoverable yellow casts- Quite a few B&W conversions... For the next trip IR filters all the way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted June 11, 2022 Share #114 Posted June 11, 2022 vor 1 Stunde schrieb Alberti: There is even a difference between color and colour. [I prefer the first]. To me the first one has iPhone colors. So it is not surprising You like it best. Apple offers what we like and we are used to such colors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted June 11, 2022 Share #115 Posted June 11, 2022 yes it is true the iMac screen sets our main viewer experience. The windmill pictures are with an Canon 50mm LTM, I think that lens renders slightly cool too. Maybe in general the results are somewhat cool. In the past I used C1, then the results of 'coloring in' were more variable , LR 6.14 gave me a stable environment; and I sort of like the LRc but I often reduce vibrancy (range of +6-+12 for both M240 and M10-R) that it proposes. But again - against my screen as backplane. Still the M10-R color scheme, which might look like the M11, is nice in its great tonality of colors, I dare not say 🤫, it has a great micro-contrast. Also it are specifically the shadows which are very different for me. That in itself is interesting, because I perceive the shadows are not as 'cold' as the M240. Probably ditto the M11. Many of the sample pictures I saw with the M11 in the beginning were like what Jaapv showed (imho post processed a little on the warm side, such as in the 'Ludwig' profile). 2 hours ago, lct said: Is it your DNG file converted by Apple Preview? Just curious. The posted file was made with LRc, without any changes. The profile that LRc gives out of the box is Adobe color. - I looked at the Preview rendering: that .dng is slightly cyan in the air and the green is a lot cooler. It is a bad bad picture, as it is the shadow side of the mill. The sunny side is of course very different, the red of the 'keys' on the mill is well detailed then. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 11, 2022 Share #116 Posted June 11, 2022 It is not a bad picture, it is a good illustration of the difficulties and pitfalls of colour editing 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFM Posted June 12, 2022 Share #117 Posted June 12, 2022 Being somewhat red-green colorblind, I can barely tell the difference between these images. Maybe best to wait for the M11 Monochrom 😉 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted June 12, 2022 Share #118 Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnFM said: Being somewhat red-green colorblind, I can barely tell the difference between these images. Maybe best to wait for the M11 Monochrom 😉 You can buy correction glasses that allow the color blind to see full color. https://enchroma.com 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maitoparta Posted November 19, 2022 Share #119 Posted November 19, 2022 On 6/6/2022 at 4:23 PM, Adam Bonn said: Yeah definitely my lexicon there 😅 Here's what I mean Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10 (left) and M9 Same exposure settings both AWB and completely unedited for the purposes of this comparison (cos y'know I edit pictures normally!) M9 image is lighter and more blue. (M10 is darker and more yellow) ergo in my speak more light and sparkly Not bad for a 13 years old camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted November 19, 2022 Share #120 Posted November 19, 2022 8 hours ago, maitoparta said: Not bad for a 13 years old camera. They never get worse, just the newer ones get more bells and whistles 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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