OMG! The prices!

[Tomsmac]

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8 minutes ago, loughtonsmith said:

I owned an M6 back in the mid-90s…and loved it.    Back then, I picked it up for $1200 along with a 50 summicron for $1000.   Today, I’m back with an M4-2 and have no regrets.  My old M6 was a wonderful camera, but the M4-2 is a great body that feels very much the same.  My experience feels similar to adding a new dog to the family…I fondly remember our old dog and our adventures together, but our new dog is a really great one too.  I wouldn’t replace him for anything 🦮 📷 

Really well said. Thank you!

Which would you say is the best dollar to dollar value. (Todays prices) For me it’s the M4-2 by a long shot. We need to find a hipster with an audience to review the M4-2. 😂

I’d also add that having a brand new MP the value, $ to $, the M4-2 wins as well by even a greater margin. Thanks for chiming in.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Tomsmac

[loughtonsmith]

At my age, I can hardly try out for the hipster cohort 😉, but I can say that for the money, the M4-2 is often a great deal… $-$.  Folks have pushed the price for the M6 into the stratosphere for no apparently good reason.  It’s not like they’re in short supply, rare collectibles, or a superior product… they’re just a little newer than an M4/M4-2/M-4P and less expensive than an M7, MP, or MA.  Some of the repainted, refurbished, and apparently CLAd cameras coming up on the auction site look a little too good… too shiny, too perfect, and too expensive to trust.  It’s like buying a classic car… sure it looks pretty, but…🤨

The M4-2 (and M4-P) are still Leica… in today’s market, the prices haven’t appeared to rise as fast or as much as the M6, but that doesn’t diminish their value as a photographic instrument, nor as a long-term investment.  
I anticipate that my M4-2 will hold its value for decades to come… and in that time, I’ll shoot many, many rolls of film and go on several wonderful adventures with it in my hands.

Edited June 5, 2022 by loughtonsmith

[Tomsmac]

50 minutes ago, loughtonsmith said:

At my age, I can hardly try out for the hipster cohort 😉, but I can say that for the money, the M4-2 is often a great deal… $-$.  Folks have pushed the price for the M6 into the stratosphere for no apparently good reason.  It’s not like they’re in short supply, rare collectibles, or a superior product… they’re just a little newer than an M4/M4-2/M-4P and less expensive than an M7, MP, or MA.  Some of the repainted, refurbished, and apparently CLAd cameras coming up on the auction site look a little too good… too shiny, too perfect, and too expensive to trust.  It’s like buying a classic car… sure it looks pretty, but…🤨

The M4-2 (and M4-P) are still Leica… in today’s market, the prices haven’t appeared to rise as fast or as much as the M6, but that doesn’t diminish their value as a photographic instrument, nor as a long-term investment.  
I anticipate that my M4-2 will hold its value for decades to come… and in that time, I’ll shoot many, many rolls of film and go on several wonderful adventures with it in my hands.

Once again, very well said.

[ktmrider2]

I purchased a black chrome 50th anniversary M4 two years ago for $3000.  The dealer just offered me what I paid for the camera and I see one on his website for $3999.  So, ya Leica M film camera prices are insane.  I doubt a digital Leica would do that and am glad I got rid of my digital Leica's.  When I want to shoot digital and digital does have many advantages, I go Fuji.

[loughtonsmith]

Lately, I’ve returned to film exclusively (with the exception of my iPhone for digital shots) after about 20 years of digital cameras.  I just like the process of using film, I guess… and with most labs offering cheap basic scanning, I can proof a roll to find the best shots for more serious scanning later.

Prices for gear have gone through the roof, but like most things, they’ll level off in a couple of years.  (I hope)

[Tomsmac]

52 minutes ago, loughtonsmith said:

Lately, I’ve returned to film exclusively (with the exception of my iPhone for digital shots) after about 20 years of digital cameras.  I just like the process of using film, I guess… and with most labs offering cheap basic scanning, I can proof a roll to find the best shots for more serious scanning later.

Prices for gear have gone through the roof, but like most things, they’ll level off in a couple of years.  (I hope)

Oh! So it’s  you that’s  making the prices rise so much! 😂.

Im going through exactly the same!! I purchased an M10 and didn’t like the BW processed look so I got a M Monochrom. Wasn’t happy with that either. So I broke out my film cameras and then (ugh) added a M4-2 based on a recommendation here and I’m thrilled at the results. I compliment it with a Voigtlander little hot shoe meter and I’m in love.

I had to return the MP that had horrible back focus issue on all 4 of my lenses.

Ive now got a Jobo cpa and a Epson v600 and I’m finally happy. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Tomsmac

[plaidshirts]

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4 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I purchased a black chrome 50th anniversary M4 two years ago for $3000.  The dealer just offered me what I paid for the camera and I see one on his website for $3999.  So, ya Leica M film camera prices are insane.  I doubt a digital Leica would do that and am glad I got rid of my digital Leica's.  When I want to shoot digital and digital does have many advantages, I go Fuji.

Similar story here, except I got my bodies when it was a lot cheaper. The only digital Leica I have left is the M-D, which is probably the only digital camera I know of that has kept it's value after 5+ years. I've had Fuji since X-Pro1 and X100s and haven't looked back.

[willeica]

4 hours ago, loughtonsmith said:

Lately, I’ve returned to film exclusively (with the exception of my iPhone for digital shots) after about 20 years of digital cameras.  I just like the process of using film, I guess… and with most labs offering cheap basic scanning, I can proof a roll to find the best shots for more serious scanning later.

 

You are not alone and some young digital natives are trying it out for the first time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/05/you-only-have-one-shot-how-film-cameras-won-over-a-younger-generation

What goes around, comes around. My M6 is now worth about 3 times what I paid for it about 11 years ago and my 2 M3s (DS and SS)  are worth about two and a half times what I paid for them. I have all the other film Ms, but these two models stand out. 

Leica probably needs to get in on the youth market, the same way that it did with the SOFORT. The film Ms are too expensive, either new or second hand, for the youth market. What might work? A Lomography item with a red dot? Lomography is another company that has done a lot to capture the youth market. 

Time for lateral thinking?

William 

[loughtonsmith]

You might have mistaken me for a younger man.  I started breathing fixer fumes and assisting in my Dad’s studio back in the mid-1970s.  

I think you’re right, though, that Leica, and the used market, has outpriced the younger enthusiasts.  Not to underestimate the power of setting priorities, but many (if not most) young people couldn’t afford a user-level used body and a couple of decent lenses…  As a younger man, I bought my first Leica (a used M6 and a 50 summicron) at 26 years old, but I had to sell my 4x5, lenses, and a Nikon system to do it.  I made it a priority, saved up, and got my first M camera.  My friends thought I was crazy, especially when I sold my Nikon F3, but I had to follow my instincts.  
I would hate to see Leica produce a dumbed-down or “bargain” model to appeal to a younger audience.  That move has been a disaster for countless other companies.  Perhaps young enthusiasts just need to reset their priorities, like I did, and work toward their first M camera.

[bdolzani]

There is a strong and obvious love-hate for Leica in the younger film crowd (and digital as well I suppose). Many youtubers get one loaned/sponsored, shoot with it a couple times, make a couple videos, get their likes and views. Many I believe do not keep them. And the shooters who can afford them are both envied and hated. Many many people shoot Fuji especially with animosity towards Leica, which is too snobby and elitist.

I for one still have my Fujis and they are great, but I then spied Leica down the pike and I'm too far gone into red dot appreciation so I'm here to stay. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by bdolzani

[loughtonsmith]

That was a good article link.  You’re probably right… I work with young gen-z people and they have a culture all their own.  I guess that I’m learning how my parents and teachers looked at me, and my contemporaries, at that age 😉

[PFM]

I'm very satisfied with my M4-P, though I haven't been able to use it as much as I've wanted over the last couple of years for various reasons.  I think now of all the M6 Classics that will later in life become M4-Ps as the electronics continue to fail now that Leica says there are no more replacement parts.  Prices on those might start dropping somewhat precipitously as a knee jerk reaction, but that means some bargain buying for the future.  Meanwhile, the M4-P is holding value quite nicely, having doubled in price over the latest run-up.

After this current revaluation of everything Leica calms down, I may finally get a couple of Summicrons (35, 50) to replace the Voigtlander and Elmar I currently use.  Or maybe a couple of Summiluxes!  That would be nice.

PF

[Herr Barnack]

Today's used film M camera prices are making me regret not buying 10 or 15 used film bodies five or so years ago. 

Hindsight is 20/20 vision, as they say.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Tomsmac]

28 minutes ago, PFM said:

I'm very satisfied with my M4-P, though I haven't been able to use it as much as I've wanted over the last couple of years for various reasons.  I think now of all the M6 Classics that will later in life become M4-Ps as the electronics continue to fail now that Leica says there are no more replacement parts.  Prices on those might start dropping somewhat precipitously as a knee jerk reaction, but that means some bargain buying for the future.  Meanwhile, the M4-P is holding value quite nicely, having doubled in price over the latest run-up.

After this current revaluation of everything Leica calms down, I may finally get a couple of Summicrons (35, 50) to replace the Voigtlander and Elmar I currently use.  Or maybe a couple of Summiluxes!  That would be nice.

PF

I hear you. I actually prefer my Voigtlander 28mm over the Summicron that I returned. Everyone has a unique eye I suppose. Thanks for chiming in.

[Tomsmac]

16 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Today's used film M camera prices are making me regret not buying 10 or 15 used film bodies five or so years ago. 

Hindsight is 20/20 vision, as they say.

I think we all feel that way. 😁

[mikemgb]

I read this entire thread a couple of days ago, until I did I had no idea what prices had done over the last couple of years. I have an M2 with a quickload kit and lenses varying from 28mm to 135mm, with brightline viewfinders where necessary. I also have a few Barnacks with some nice lenses.

After reading this  I priced what it would cost to replace my gear and found it would be about three times what I paid for it. 

As a result I now have camera insurance that will cover loss and damage, a worthwhile investment I believe. 

[colint544]

11 hours ago, willeica said:

You are not alone and some young digital natives are trying it out for the first time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/05/you-only-have-one-shot-how-film-cameras-won-over-a-younger-generation

What goes around, comes around. My M6 is now worth about 3 times what I paid for it about 11 years ago and my 2 M3s (DS and SS)  are worth about two and a half times what I paid for them. I have all the other film Ms, but these two models stand out. 

Leica probably needs to get in on the youth market, the same way that it did with the SOFORT. The film Ms are too expensive, either new or second hand, for the youth market. What might work? A Lomography item with a red dot? Lomography is another company that has done a lot to capture the youth market. 

Time for lateral thinking?

William 

Enjoyed that article, William. Thanks for posting the link.

[Tomsmac]

7 hours ago, mikemgb said:

I read this entire thread a couple of days ago, until I did I had no idea what prices had done over the last couple of years. I have an M2 with a quickload kit and lenses varying from 28mm to 135mm, with brightline viewfinders where necessary. I also have a few Barnacks with some nice lenses.

After reading this  I priced what it would cost to replace my gear and found it would be about three times what I paid for it. 

As a result I now have camera insurance that will cover loss and damage, a worthwhile investment I believe. 

 

7 hours ago, mikemgb said:

I read this entire thread a couple of days ago, until I did I had no idea what prices had done over the last couple of years. I have an M2 with a quickload kit and lenses varying from 28mm to 135mm, with brightline viewfinders where necessary. I also have a few Barnacks with some nice lenses.

After reading this  I priced what it would cost to replace my gear and found it would be about three times what I paid for it. 

As a result I now have camera insurance that will cover loss and damage, a worthwhile investment I believe. 

Extremely wise decision. I hold camera insurance as well through USAA. If I hadn’t asked I wouldn’t have known that while they still accepted my application and list of cameras that in order to pay I had to include receipts which I fortunately had. They also have an option for lenses as well.  

Let’s both hope that we’ll never need to use it!

[mikemgb]

57 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

 

Extremely wise decision. I hold camera insurance as well through USAA. If I hadn’t asked I wouldn’t have known that while they still accepted my application and list of cameras that in order to pay I had to include receipts which I fortunately had. They also have an option for lenses as well.  

Let’s both hope that we’ll never need to use it!

I also insured through USAA. You don’t actually need the receipt, if you don’t have one a photograph of the equipment is sufficient, they require a receipt or other proof of ownership. 
 

I confirmed this a few years ago when I was burgled, in a couple of cases the only proof I had of ownership was the fact the item I was claiming for happened to be in the background of a family photograph, that was enough evidence for them. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[loughtonsmith]

I also insured my camera and lenses through USAA, but in the fine print it appears that an appraisal might be needed for a claim to verify the self-stated value.  I may call them to find an approved appraiser who knows something about photographic equipment…