OMG! The prices!

[a.noctilux]

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Why bother ( just for me of course ! )

I sold M6 more than once at 600 to 700€ , after using them happily for years.

...

OMG, increasing/loosing prices I don't care, my M are tools and not financial invest,

...

still keep two M6 as backup (rarely use), I don't need the money anyway (one my first M6 of 1985, and one 0.85 M6HM).

 

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[Tomsmac]

1 minute ago, logan2z said:

Analog M prices have increased dramatically.  But I have noticed that the cameras are taking much longer to sell in recent months. 

There was a time not long ago when a SS M3 would hit the used market and be gone in a matter of hours.  But I've been watching a couple on a well-known LUF sponsor's site and they've been sitting unsold for months.  Perhaps prices have finally become higher than the market is willing to bear.  

I’m hoping that you’re right as I’m beginning to agree. It really follows the real estate market closely.

[Tomsmac]

2 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Why bother ( just for me of course ! )

I sold M6 more than once at 600 to 700€ , after using them happily for years.

...

OMG, increasing/loosing prices I don't care, my M are tools and not financial invest,

...

still keep two M6 as backup (rarely use), I don't need the money anyway (one my first M6 of 1985, and one 0.85 M6HM).

 

“

my M are tools and not financial invest” Exactly right when you already own the tools.

[malligator]

12 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

I always wondered what makes people start looking for a M6? I’d understand a M2, M3, M4, M5, MP, M-A, M7... but never understood why M6.

As a middle-aged dude that watches a ridiculous amount of photography-related content on Youtube I can tell you that the M6 is THE Leica to have for the young, hip, film crowd.

It's almost as hip as the Contax T2 which is in/hot/hip/dope/tight/lit/rad because one of the Kardashian kids has one.

I don't get it, but again, I'm a middle-aged dude so I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to.

If I did it wouldn't be in/hot/hip/dope/tight/lit/rad anymore.

[Tomsmac]

2 hours ago, malligator said:

As a middle-aged dude that watches a ridiculous amount of photography-related content on Youtube I can tell you that the M6 is THE Leica to have for the young, hip, film crowd.

It's almost as hip as the Contax T2 which is in/hot/hip/dope/tight/lit/rad because one of the Kardashian kids has one.

I don't get it, but again, I'm a middle-aged dude so I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to.

If I did it wouldn't be in/hot/hip/dope/tight/lit/rad anymore.

I thought I was the only one od’ing on YouTube film content! Damn hipsters, they’re ruining everything for us geezers.

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, malligator said:

As a middle-aged dude that watches a ridiculous amount of photography-related content on Youtube I can tell you that the M6 is THE Leica to have for the young, hip, film crowd.

It's almost as hip as the Contax T2 which is in/hot/hip/dope/tight/lit/rad because one of the Kardashian kids has one.

I don't get it, but again, I'm a middle-aged dude so I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to.

If I did it wouldn't be in/hot/hip/dope/tight/lit/rad anymore.

I wanted to find the smallest, quality, film camera. My wife has a Rollei B35, and despite the fact that it has survived for years and still works well, I look down my nose at it because of the unfashionable lens. I decided the Contax T2 looked as if it might suit my image, then looked at prices......... I was too hip to realise the Kardashians liked them....... I'll just stick with Barnacks.

[madNbad]

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It’s an easy camera to use and it’s a Leica. I had a very early one in the mid 1980s and stupidly traded it for a Hasselblad after owning it for about seven years. Fast forward to 2005, traded a Hasselblad for a M6 TTL. The great analog purge of the early twenty first century dropped prices to ridiculously low levels. A new generation has grown up since then and as they embrace film photography, prices will continue to rise. Take a look at the price of LPs.

[Tomsmac]

37 minutes ago, madNbad said:

It’s an easy camera to use and it’s a Leica. I had a very early one in the mid 1980s and stupidly traded it for a Hasselblad after owning it for about seven years. Fast forward to 2005, traded a Hasselblad for a M6 TTL. The great analog purge of the early twenty first century dropped prices to ridiculously low levels. A new generation has grown up since then and as they embrace film photography, prices will continue to rise. Take a look at the price of LPs.

Buddy, I did the same exact thing in 2009. Sold an awesome M6 0.72 ttl. I’ve now got a 2022 MP but, and I’m not sure why, it’s not the same. I am grateful to have a M10 and 246 but it’s too sharp imo.

[Tomsmac]

44 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I wanted to find the smallest, quality, film camera. My wife has a Rollei B35, and despite the fact that it has survived for years and still works well, I look down my nose at it because of the unfashionable lens. I decided the Contax T2 looked as if it might suit my image, then looked at prices......... I was too hip to realise the Kardashians liked them....... I'll just stick with Barnacks.

I’m loving my Olympus Pen EED 1/2 frame. Fits right in my pocket.

[adan]

Why M6? (and keep in mind that my own film M is an M2-4 (M2 upgraded to M4 loading and framelines - a nice cheap find, but that's another story).

Meter
Rewind crank instead of knob
M4/MP/MA-sized rather than M5-sized

If anyone disagrees that those are not important features, that's fine.

But keep in mind that the used-gear market is a "wallet-democracy" - the majority opinion sets the prices. And maybe dial up the empathy for others' preferences, and dial back the ego a notch or two regarding one's own.

Why high prices for older Leica Ms?

Supply and demand. Anything no longer made inherently has a limited supply. Plus, the used prices are still lower than a new MP/M-A, and competitive with many used MPs/M-As.

Why now?

Maybe some Utube influencer promoted the glory of analog Leica rangefinders a few months back.

More probably, I expect the past two years have created both a lot of disposable income (money that was not spent on travel, concerts, museums, sports events, bars, restaurants; plus what was received in economic stimulation) - and a lot of pent-up demand for anything new and exciting.

I know that the gallery I use has seen a tripling in pretty much every metric over 2019 (membership applications, unit sales, cash flow, net income, some prices (although that is up to the individual artists)). And was starting to show that increase even a year ago, once local restrictions on retail eased after vaccines arrived.

As with older M prices, that will probably plateau eventually, or even retreat a bit.

[Tomsmac]

9 minutes ago, adan said:

Why M6? (and keep in mind that my own film M is an M2-4 (M2 upgraded to M4 loading and framelines - a nice cheap find, but that's another story).

Meter
Rewind crank instead of knob
M4/MP/MA-sized rather than M5-sized

If anyone disagrees that those are not important features, that's fine.

But keep in mind that the used-gear market is a "wallet-democracy" - the majority opinion sets the prices. And maybe dial up the empathy for others' preferences, and dial back the ego a notch or two regarding one's own.

Why high prices for older Leica Ms?

Supply and demand. Anything no longer made inherently has a limited supply. Plus, the used prices are still lower than a new MP/M-A, and competitive with many used MPs/M-As.

Why now?

Maybe some Utube influencer promoted the glory of analog Leica rangefinders a few months back.

More probably, I expect the past two years have created both a lot of disposable income (money that was not spent on travel, concerts, museums, sports events, bars, restaurants; plus what was received in economic stimulation) - and a lot of pent-up demand for anything new and exciting.

I know that the gallery I use has seen a tripling in pretty much every metric over 2019 (membership applications, unit sales, cash flow, net income, some prices (although that is up to the individual artists)). And was starting to show that increase even a year ago, once local restrictions on retail eased after vaccines arrived.

As with older M prices, that will probably plateau eventually, or even retreat a bit.

Adan, I hear you but I like the build quality of the M6 a little better. Just a preference. If I could find an almost mint or newly CLA’s M4-2 Id give it consideration.

[adan]

19 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

Adan, I hear you but I like the build quality of the M6 a little better. Just a preference. If I could find an almost mint or newly CLA’s M4-2 Id give it consideration.

I don't disagree - the only "build quality" that matters to me is something that affects the pictures. I shot an M4-2, an M4-P, and M6s until the digital Ms came out, and they worked as well as any other film M.

If an M6 had showed up in the shop at the same time I found the M2-4 - at the same price - I would probably have picked the M6 (absent operational problems).

[Danner]

5 hours ago, logan2z said:

Analog M prices have increased dramatically.  But I have noticed that the cameras are taking much longer to sell in recent months. 

There was a time not long ago when a SS M3 would hit the used market and be gone in a matter of hours.  But I've been watching a couple on a well-known LUF sponsor's site and they've been sitting unsold for months.  Perhaps prices have finally become higher than the market is willing to bear.  

I see this hesitancy in the market lately too.  IMHO, even people with plenty of money, are looking at their brokerage account value each week, and thinking now is maybe not the time to drop $5k-$10 on camera gear.

[Tomsmac]

6 minutes ago, Danner said:

I see this hesitancy in the market lately too.  IMHO, even people with plenty of money, are looking at their brokerage account value each week, and thinking now is maybe not the time to drop $5k-$10 on camera gear.

 

6 minutes ago, Danner said:

I see this hesitancy in the market lately too.  IMHO, even people with plenty of money, are looking at their brokerage account value each week, and thinking now is maybe not the time to drop $5k-$10 on camera gear.

 

10 minutes ago, adan said:

I don't disagree - the only "build quality" that matters to me is something that affects the pictures. I shot an M4-2, an M4-P, and M6s until the digital Ms came out, and they worked as well as any other film M.

If an M6 had showed up in the shop at the same time I found the M2-4 - at the same price - I would probably have picked the M6 (absent operational problems).

Which of those two would you recommend and why if you don’t mind? Got me thinking…..thx

[Tomsmac]

7 minutes ago, Danner said:

I see this hesitancy in the market lately too.  IMHO, even people with plenty of money, are looking at their brokerage account value each week, and thinking now is maybe not the time to drop $5k-$10 on camera gear.

Now your talking in my area of expertise. It’s coming and it’s bringing he’ll with it.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

6 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Everything is increasing (especially analog M's) except the depreciating M240 and M10 at the moment. Even M9 and M8 are on the rise.. But that is perfectly normal. What is not normal are the analog M price hikes.

Why is it not normal?

[Capuccino-Muffin]

7 hours ago, Tomsmac said:

😂 Of course the prices will come down. Do you have any idea where this economy is going? It’s not going to be pretty.

I’m curious to know more about your theory

[Tomsmac]

13 minutes ago, Danner said:

I see this hesitancy in the market lately too.  IMHO, even people with plenty of money, are looking at their brokerage account value each week, and thinking now is maybe not the time to drop $5k-$10 on camera gear.

*Hell 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

Strange thing as prices of Leica.

More than forty years ago, I didn't (yet) have Leica and considered yearly increase in their prices, I said to myself,

Leica would never loose values.

So I took my first pay to buy one M4 second hand and some months credits (what I was able to afford, without any lens).

The M4 was "perfect M" for many years, then came M5/M6 and many others.

Each one bought was very expensive but when I sold after using a while, neither one has lost values.

 

When I think that my M6 from 1985 was about 3,000€ new, and I can (could?) sell about same price, that is crazy.

Crazier yet, replacements of M4 with M-A/MP (less user friendly M ) were good decision ( price of services increased even more).

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by a.noctilux

[adan]

8 hours ago, Tomsmac said:

Which of those two would you recommend and why if you don’t mind? Got me thinking…..thx

I may be the wrong person to ask. My philosophy of life and success (which has worked out very well for me) is - figure out what everyone else does/thinks/wants, and then choose the exact opposite.

All things being equal, I'd recommend the M6. But "things" - including price - aren't all that equal at the moment.

Nor, of course, are preferences. I like using a 75mm lens a lot, so that's one factor that would put the M6 on the top of my list, followed by the M4-P - normally.

But I was intrigued by this weird M2 upgraded to M4 loading and framelines (thus a fairly unique "M2-4" Frankenstein camera) at a regular M2 price (or less, actually).

And it was available right then and there. I don't really enjoy shopping around for photo gear much - so I'll take "whatever the tide brings in," if it is interesting and comfortable and inexpensive and functional (pick any three). In this case with a 50 or 90 instead of a 75.

I'll just use my 75mm on my M10s - and what I use a film Leica for does not have to mirror what I use a digital Leica for. Two different mediums.

I also have a nice handheld, pocketable meter for my other film formats, so the lack of the M6's built-in meter was - for me - less of a factor.