Leica M11 Sony Sensor - Doesn’t have the “Leica Look”

[KeyofG]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 minutes ago, tashley said:

why are you some keen to convince all the 11 users,

No. I’m sure they like it. There’s another post here of someone who bought it and immediately sold it and stuck with the M10 that he had. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 
 

To each their own. I’m just a Leica user and fan and I am just making an observation about the new Leica M camera. A new Leica M is always significant since they come out every 5 or 6 years. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by KeyofG

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, KeyofG said:

Tailwagger tried. Didn’t work so well. (See above). The whole thing about the Leica look is it doesn’t need much of anything. It just looks like over-processed raw files that could’ve come from any camera. And that’s not why I bought a Leica. 
 

This video is a guy trying to make a Micro Four Thirds look like a Leica. 

Like he says, the difference between the RAWs is very different also 

The problem is, we are back at the beginning. You spend $9,000 for a LEICA M and you need to work the RAW to fake the Leica look? 🤣🤣🤣 
 

If you need to tweak the M11 RAW to FAKE the Leica Look then, the M11 is a Leica Impostor. 
 

So did we end up with a Sony A7RIV Rangefinder edition?

I never bought into a Leica look.  But for those who might, I doubt many would rely on JPEGS after spending $9k. And if online pics are the basis for judgment, a phone camera can generally suffice.

Jeff

[KeyofG]

Just now, Jeff S said:

doubt many would rely on JPEGS after spending $9k

We aren’t talking just JPEGS here. We are talking about processing RAW files also to achieve this “leica look”. There’s definitely a difference and obviously not all the shots I posted (maybe none of them) are straight out of camera JPEGS. 
 

They’re not bad, it’s just different. That’s all. I don’t think you should tweak a Leica M so that it looks like a “Leica M look”. 

[lct]

11 minutes ago, KeyofG said:

We aren’t talking just JPEGS here. We are talking about processing RAW files also to achieve this “leica look”. There’s definitely a difference and obviously not all the shots I posted (maybe none of them) are straight out of camera JPEGS. 
They’re not bad, it’s just different. That’s all. I don’t think you should tweak a Leica M so that it looks like a “Leica M look”. 

There is no such thing as one Leica look . There are several of them. I have known three since my first Leica in the seventies. Pre-Mandler era, Mandler era and Karbe era. Each era with different "Leica look". Only common point is Leica lenses but a Summicron 50/2 v1 has little in common IQ wise with a Summicron 50/2 apo.

Edited May 12, 2022 by lct

[frame-it]

40 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

JPEGS are someone else’s defaults.

this sums it up really well.

[Jeff S]

18 minutes ago, KeyofG said:

We aren’t talking just JPEGS here. We are talking about processing RAW files also to achieve this “leica look”. There’s definitely a difference and obviously not all the shots I posted (maybe none of them) are straight out of camera JPEGS. 
 

They’re not bad, it’s just different. That’s all. I don’t think you should tweak a Leica M so that it looks like a “Leica M look”. 

Well, make up your mind: you wrote that you could tweak RAW files from any decent camera to your liking. The M11 is clearly decent. Why care about anyone else’s pics here?

Anyone familiar with high dynamic range modern cameras knows that RAW files OOC can tend to be flat.  Funny that when users complained about flat files from the M10 Monochrome, Leica worked with Adobe to revise the default contrast curve, an action that any competent user could do in seconds on their own.

I’ve been using Leica cameras since the 80’s, and ten other brands (and multiple formats) since the 70’s, and the best I can say is that my pics and prints tend to have a ‘Jeff look’, although that too can intentionally vary from pic to pic. 

Jeff 

[KeyofG]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

24 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

you wrote that you could tweak RAW files from any decent camera to your liking. The M11 is clearly decent.

It is good. But I shouldn’t have to work on a Leica M too hard so it looks like a Leica. 
 

Obviously something going on with the processing that isn’t quite right as Overgaard put it. 

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, KeyofG said:

Tailwagger tried. Didn’t work so well. (See above).

Ah... well then I think you need to alter you moniker to something like B flat minor... even a single sharp is one too many I fear. 

[Jeff S]

15 minutes ago, KeyofG said:

Obviously something going on with the processing that isn’t quite right as Overgaard put it. 

Once again, he was discussing JPEGS.

Jeff

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, Overgaard said:

...The M11 straight-out-of-the-camera JPG in black and white ... yes, I don't know what went on there. I can't use those (more on that later in an article and video), but I anyways shoot DNG and convert to monochrome on M10 and M240, and so it is the case with the M11...

 

I made a post about this and got zero comments. While I don't often use the in-camera B&W JPEGs, they are part of the user experience. The M11 B&W JPEGs look like warmed-over dogshit in their current state. They have a really bizarre tone curve and are over-compressed resulting in terrible banding and harsh transitions, particularly in the corners when using lenses with heavy vignetting. The M10-R, Q2, and SL2-S all have really nice B&W JPEGs by comparison. The M11 B&W JPEGs are so bad, at first I thought the LCD must be really bad quality, but it's a nice LCD.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by hdmesa

[KeyofG]

35 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I made a post about this and got zero comments. While I don't often use the in-camera B&W JPEGs, they are part of the user experience. The M11 B&W JPEGs look like warmed-over dogshit in their current state. They have a really bizarre tone curve and are over-compressed resulting in terrible banding and harsh transitions, particularly in the corners when using lenses with heavy vignetting. The M10-R, Q2, and SL2-S all have really nice B&W JPEGs by comparison. The M11 B&W JPEGs are so bad, at first I thought the LCD must be really bad quality, but it's a nice LCD.

 

Thank you! You say anything here that sounds like this and everyone says you’re trolling and baiting and they tag your posts are Spam and get you banned. It’s crazy. 

I'm just pointing out something  real. I’m not imagining it. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, KeyofG said:

I'm just pointing out something  real. I’m not imagining it. 

Look at the title of your thread. No mention of JPEG vs RAW, instead focusing on the always controversial ‘Leica look’, and the M11 sensor. Then you spend half the discussion flip-flopping between JPEG and RAW comments, and then eventually contradicting your own RAW PP abilities regarding the M11.  

If you had merely titled the thread ‘ M11 JPEGS Suck’, and stuck just to that issue, most of the unnecessary debate here would have disappeared.

Or you could have just  posted in hdmesa’s thread…

Jeff

Edited May 13, 2022 by Jeff S

[Dennis]

LL=KOB

Edited May 13, 2022 by Dennis
…. They are just myths

[hillavoider]

I am surprised as i really like the b&w jpeg film look option. I was quite impressed after having shot only RAW and film for about 10 years. this is a tiny jpeg preview 247kb and no PP

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited May 13, 2022 by hillavoider

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, KeyofG said:

I’m not imagining it. 

Are we artists or what?

why do you accept somebody's look  "Leica" to be your own.

I rather use my taste to deliver individualism and creativity.

camera is just a tool in the hands of the "Artist"

[LUF Admin]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb KeyofG:

You say anything here that sounds like this and everyone says you’re trolling and baiting and they tag your posts are Spam and get you banned. It’s crazy. 

You don't get banned from the forum for criticism of Leica products – there is no place in the universe (litterally) with more criticism of Leica than this forum.

You get banned for violating the rules, for example insulting other members and starting fights over and over again.

And if you start a new account after being banned, the new account gets banned too – like yours, @KeyofG.

Andreas

[beewee]

15 hours ago, KeyofG said:

Lately some have been posting B&W photos from the M11 (with Leica lenses) and they look pretty terrible. That magic of Leica is gone. It’s harsh and blown out. That Sony sensor really is showing it’s true “colors”. 

Definitely that Sony sensor is ruining your photos. I have an M10 that will blow your socks away. I can trade you for your M11. 😉 

[elmars]

The last one who argued like KeyofG (insisting without real reasoning) called himself Steven. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[anickpick]

a few words of farewell to KeyofG: We all see things that do not exist. It's ok. Everything is already alright. Take a deep breath. And don't follow your thoughts. Don't even touch them.

[cboy]

7 hours ago, KeyofG said:

 This video is a guy trying to make a Micro Four Thirds look like a Leica. 

Goes to show the look can be achieved with any camera with some PP and saturation. Just with Leica files there's less work to achieve the final result. The myth is to inflate egos.

Leica glass ultimately defines the image imo.