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Leica M11 Sony Sensor - Doesn’t have the “Leica Look”


KeyofG

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I was waiting to see more photos taken with the new M11.
 

Back when I started getting interested in photography the first photo that grabbed my attention and started my list for Leica was a B&W photo taken with the M240 and a Summilux. That B&W looked so dreamy and buttery smooth. 
 

Now I have the M10R and I see the same thing, even I’m not shooting with a Leica lens, just the JPEGs I gets straight from the camera are like butter. 
 

Lately some have been posting B&W photos from the M11 (with Leica lenses) and they look pretty terrible. That magic of Leica is gone. It’s harsh and blown out. That Sony sensor really is showing it’s true “colors”. 
 

Here are some links. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CddRr0KO-yG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

Not even the summilux can save it 

I’m speechless. 

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Leica M11 has that horrible Phase One look, or Sigma fp L, or that horrible GFX 100S look. Not really …

Having the same underlying sensor technology does not have much influence on the resulting file. Differences in CFA, in firmware, etc, determine the final output.
Also, X1D and GFX 50S share the same underlying sensor technology and have very different output as well.

 

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7 minutes ago, elmars said:

A bad photographer is able to take bad photographs with the best sensor.

And bad light makes bad photographs even with the best sensor. 

No doubt. 
 

but I’ve taken terrible photos with my M10R and the B&W JPEGs come out like butter. They have the Leica look. And it’s not even a Leica lens. 

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3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Leica M11 has that horrible Phase One look, or Sigma fp L, or that horrible GFX 100S look. Not really …

Having the same underlying sensor technology does not have much influence on the resulting file. Differences in CFA, in firmware, etc, determine the final output.
Also, X1D and GFX 50S share the same underlying sensor technology and have very different output as well.

 

Yea. That’s what everyone says… Maybe it does have all that Leica magic. Somewhere. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, frame-it said:

please post a few of these "leica Look" photos here.

This photo here is the M240 (as an example) 

This one is the M10

M10R

Aaannnddd M11


 

Hey don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just saying. Sony sure does make some pretty sharp results though. I think I can count the leaves on the tree back there
😅

These M10 (and M240) results match my own. Last weekend I pointed the 10R into a pond and took a crappy photo, but the B&W jpeg looks like that. Buttery smooth. Unlike the M11 results. 

Edited by KeyofG
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The M11 camera has the most natural colors I have seen in a Leica. it reflect the closed to what I see with my eye.

I didn't get that with M10 or M240, there was always lots to tweak to get natural look. The limited dynamic range of this cameras reflects in the output .

 

The images out of the M11 are a little more contrasty , if you want the old look just tweet the JPG setting to your liking.

Noted that I didn't say the M11 sensor. The magic is how the processor and like software represents the image. So Sony or not, what is probably not, nobody should care.

To me the M11 and M10R are excellent cameras, and I am glad not to have to use the M10P or M240 anymore.

 

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1 minute ago, Viv said:

A bad workman blames his tools.

+1

I'm not entirely convinced the OP even owns an M11 and seems to be plucking other peoples efforts out of the ether, but it's especially naïve to think that post processing can't mould the image into any tonal range, contrasty and irritating or buttery smooth. And if its about the intrinsic nature of files from the M11 the OP needs to know they don't have to like the same things in a photo that the team who programmed the firmware does, any photo from any camera is there to be made your own.

 

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I've used the M11 for street photography and I will soon write a personal review on this (great) experience. I've got pictures that indeed are "harsh and blow-out" and others that fit the "creamy butter" description.

In a word: it really depends on the lighting and the post processing... 

Those "silky" pictures are mostly taken when you have the time to adapt, choose the appropriate time of the day or the setting etc to make the picture perfect (ie a "controlled environment")... When you are on the street and there is a scene you want to capture under hard sunlight, well, the camera will capture what it sees... My take anyway. 

What matters is how forgiving the camera is in the files it produces and in this respect I can say that I am extremely satisfied with the both the global and pixel quality of the M11 files. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, KeyofG said:

This photo here is the M240 (as an example) 

This one is the M10

M10R

Aaannnddd M11


 

Hey don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just saying. Sony sure does make some pretty sharp results though. I think I can count the leaves on the tree back there
😅

These M10 (and M240) results match my own. Last weekend I pointed the 10R into a pond and took a crappy photo, but the B&W jpeg looks like that. Buttery smooth. Unlike the M11 results. 

I’m confused… You are complaining about “harshness” and contrast in a photograph of a snowy alpine scene? Or is that just for the under bridge scene? And contrasting that with the “buttery smoothness” of two interior shots made with diffuse window light?

Soft window light lends itself to buttery smoothness. Long exposures on clouds lends itself to buttery smoothness even if the snowy trees don’t. High contrast lighting under a bridge with a background lit by direct sun most certainly does NOT lend itself to buttery smoothness.

Regardless of camera, I don’t see how one could have gotten a different result. Are you just trying to get a reaction? Make us feel a sense of outrage that you would poke fun at the latest Leica?

If the M11 JPG’s are not to your taste, no worries, but to use these as examples to support your premise seems ridiculous.

Edited by Jared
Mistake on which image…
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I'm not good at comparing jpeg's but i find two main differences as far as raw files are concerned. The M11 has no problem with clipping reds and M240 colours are a bit more yellowish as can be seen below. I don't use LR though (ACR). Both are easy to tweak in PP.

 

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I don't have an M11, but it looks to me... for whatever the hell that's worth... that the M11 is quite cool in it's rendering (bit like the M9), again, FWIW I think I'm a fan... I like red reds, green greens, blue blues! (as opposed to orangey reds, yellowy greens, and cyany blues)

If folks wanna shoot jpeg, power to them... but unless things have changed a lot in the M11 the M range has never really been the discerning JPEG shooters tool IMHO, not enough adjustments..

High DR modern cameras can look kinda flat and kinda contrasty at the same time (!!!) that's the price to pay for all that DR.

In post (probably even JPEG*) we can control this with the blk/wht and contrast sliders, also the clarity slider can go to a negative value too!

*JPEGS shooters.

Every time you open and save a JPEG you're degrading it. That probably makes RAW the best choice erm something you should consider shooting with if you wish to edit pictures

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2 hours ago, Jared said:

the M11 JPG’s are not to your taste, no worries, but to use these as examples to support your premise seems ridiculous.

I could use many other examples, but I have a feeling none of them would be good enough. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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