Are Sigma lenses a little soft?

[elambo]

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This could be attributable to the forum (i.e. forcing pics to be uploaded at lower resolutions where detail is lost), but from what I've noticed via photos posted here the Sigma lenses seem to lack that incredible sharpness of the more typical Leica lens equivalents. Sigma does have a great rep -- that's clear -- which is why I thought that it's unfair to judge via files posted to the forum. On the other hand, the Leica lens pics are also subject to those file size limitations, so it should be apples-to-apples to some degree.

In a nutshell, I'm looking for something larger than the 18mm Elmarit that came with the camera, and the Leica version is $2k-ish. Sigma's is roughly 1/4 of that, so I have to consider it. HOWEVER, I'd strongly prefer to give the camera the best image possible, within reason. If you experts say that the difference is minimal, and many have said this, then I'll throw away my concern about what I see posted and give the Sigma a try.

[smcmason]

I didn't want to love Sigma Art lenses, but the more I shoot with them, the more I appreciate them. I haven't come across a Sigma Contemporary lens that really stands out, but all of the Art lenses, in addition to the 150-600 Sports lens, I consider outstanding. Especially for the price. 

Of course, lenses aren't the biggest factor in image sharpness, and I know I've been guilty in the past of seeing only unmatched results from Leica lenses that I want to buy when I'm searching for samples to use as an excuse for my purchase  Not saying this is the case for you, just some food for thought. Bottom line: If I had a shoot where sharpness would make or break the project, I wouldn't hesitate to grab any of my Sigma Art lenses. If you don't mind something larger, the 14-24 Art full frame lens can be had for <$1k used and is spectacular. 

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[elambo]

57 minutes ago, smcmason said:

the 14-24 Art full frame lens can be had for <$1k used and is spectacular. 

How funny. I was just looking at that exact lens. I don't know if 24 will get me in far enough, but I did like what I'd read about it so far.

What makes it "Art?" How is it generally different than the Contemporary lens?

[smcmason]

2 hours ago, elambo said:

How funny. I was just looking at that exact lens. I don't know if 24 will get me in far enough, but I did like what I'd read about it so far.

What makes it "Art?" How is it generally different than the Contemporary lens?

They say the Art series lenses are their sharpest, have the smoothest, most consistent bokeh, highest contrast, and are generally the widest aperture lenses Sigma offers.

I wasn't convinced on the 14-24 either, but someone I trust told me it was one of the best L mount lenses available regardless of manufacturer, so I picked it up. When I need something wider than my Leica 24-90, I don't worry about IQ loss at all when swapping it for the 14-24. I do have the TL 18-56 as well, and it is no slouch. Not nearly as fast, but it is smaller. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by smcmason

[cboy]

I think it depends on the lens. Aspc arent as good as the art series and some art lens haven't been updated to mirrorless unlike recent DG DN 85mm and 35mm F1.4 However the 40mm and 105mm are the exception...You can still uses the art lens in crop mode for one's TL and CL. The CL and new DG DN 85mm is a good setup imo.

However I don't think you can beat the 35mm f1.4 TL it terms of its lens/build quality and compactness. And the built-in camera correction is not available for Sigma lens unlike native glass. 

 Food for thought

 

 

 

 

 

[jaapv]

16 hours ago, elambo said:

This could be attributable to the forum (i.e. forcing pics to be uploaded at lower resolutions where detail is lost), but from what I've noticed via photos posted here the Sigma lenses seem to lack that incredible sharpness of the more typical Leica lens equivalents. Sigma does have a great rep -- that's clear -- which is why I thought that it's unfair to judge via files posted to the forum. On the other hand, the Leica lens pics are also subject to those file size limitations, so it should be apples-to-apples to some degree.

In a nutshell, I'm looking for something larger than the 18mm Elmarit that came with the camera, and the Leica version is $2k-ish. Sigma's is roughly 1/4 of that, so I have to consider it. HOWEVER, I'd strongly prefer to give the camera the best image possible, within reason. If you experts say that the difference is minimal, and many have said this, then I'll throw away my concern about what I see posted and give the Sigma a try.

Err... They are not soft. When you click on the preview in this forum you will see the proper sharp image. Nothing to do with the lens - but something to do with post-processing  

[elambo]

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Err... They are not soft. When you click on the preview in this forum you will see the proper sharp image. Nothing to do with the lens - but something to do with post-processing  

Yes, I've recently noticed that in a few Sigma threads. The images had no shortage of detail. Though I've read, and seen, that Sigma lenses can be warmer vs. Leica's colder tone. The thing is, there were a few pics taken by a Leica (probably M-series) by an unknown photographer that first got me onto the brand. They wreaked of emotion and complexity... and I'd even characterize them as "cold" so apparently I gravitate toward that characteristic. So perhaps what I've noticed has less to do with softness vs. sharpness, more to do with the tendency of each lens to favor warm vs. cold.

In any case, since posting this thread I've seen images from Sigma lenses which indeed show that they lack nothing in the detail department. And I think the suggestion above to look at the Art series puts me on the right track. It's a comfortable mid-ground between the contemporary Sigmas and the high-priced Leicas.

[jaapv]

DG DN lenses are at a very high level - for instance here, the 28-70 DG DN 2.8 @ 4.0. (on the Panasonic S5) <Click> 

Note that there is no lack of detail or "sharpness", even in the corners (and it is a zoom) , nor a "warm" cast, and, most importantly, virtually no purple fringing.

 

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[elambo]

On 4/24/2022 at 4:36 PM, smcmason said:

the 14-24 Art full frame lens can be had for <$1k used and is spectacular. 

I'm thinking that a used lens might be the way to go. Any tips on which sites or stores might sell these for <$1K?

[Shawn30]

The only APSC Sigma lens I have is the 30mm f1.4. When comparing it the the 35mm TL the center sharpness is very close, but the Sigma doesn't have the edge to edge sharpness of the Leica. That said, it takes great photo's and has nice bokeh. In fact I'm taking it with me to Italy. All my other Sigma lens's are full frame Art or Sport and I have zero complaints. The 105mm macro is probably my favorite. 

[smcmason]

1 hour ago, elambo said:

I'm thinking that a used lens might be the way to go. Any tips on which sites or stores might sell these for <$1K?

I think you can post a WTB ad in the classifieds here. I see an open box copy at Adorama for $1099, and there's always the Fred Miranda buy & sell where you might get more attention from a WTB ad. I wouldn't want to part with mine  

[Rusty]

On 4/25/2022 at 11:14 AM, elambo said:

This could be attributable to the forum (i.e. forcing pics to be uploaded at lower resolutions where detail is lost), but from what I've noticed via photos posted here the Sigma lenses seem to lack that incredible sharpness of the more typical Leica lens equivalents. Sigma does have a great rep -- that's clear -- which is why I thought that it's unfair to judge via files posted to the forum. On the other hand, the Leica lens pics are also subject to those file size limitations, so it should be apples-to-apples to some degree.

In a nutshell, I'm looking for something larger than the 18mm Elmarit that came with the camera, and the Leica version is $2k-ish. Sigma's is roughly 1/4 of that, so I have to consider it. HOWEVER, I'd strongly prefer to give the camera the best image possible, within reason. If you experts say that the difference is minimal, and many have said this, then I'll throw away my concern about what I see posted and give the Sigma a try.

I have the elmerit 18mm and 2 sigma apsc lens, the 30mm and 56mm. Both are sharp the 56mm seems a bit sharper but really there is not much in it. Both look to produce similar quality images as the Leica 18mm.

if you want the absolute best then the TL sumalux 35mm is clearly the best lens for the CL. It’s your call as to whether the extra sharpness and rendering it produces is worth 6 times what the sigma costs. It’s also bigger and heavier. To me the size and weight of the lens is also an issue for a compact system.

[elambo]

I'm on-board with the Sigma brand at this point. Just a casual photographer here, so if there's a couple % of detail lost (and I'm not suggesting that there is) it won't hurt my feelings.

And reviews of that 14-24 Art lens are positive enough that it's just a matter of when, and where, I'm going to buy it.

[AdHox]

I have the 24mm f/2 and the 90mm f/2.8. Both are from the Contemporary line. Neither is designed for APS-C, but they are both quite compact and a good fit for the CL. 

The 24mm f/2 is a fairly recent acquisition. I was considering the TL 23mm f/2, but opted for the less expensive option - the apparent demise of the CL system was probably a factor in that decision. Sadly I’ve been flat chat with work and haven’t had time to give it a red hot go - but fingers crossed I’ll be shooting with it this arvo.

I am hopeful that these lenses will be as good as the reviews suggest - I haven’t seen any reviewers complaining about sharpness, although there are some other issues.

[Sailronin]

The Sigma 20-60 zoom seems pretty sharp to me.... printed  on A3+ paper it's plenty sharp.

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Edited May 7, 2022 by Sailronin

[Chris W]

All the 'contemporary' lenses are very good and fit perfectly the small form factor of the CL.

The Art lenses are wonderful but usually big and heavy and much more expensive.

There are a lot of Sigma lens reviews on this forum, plus Youtube videos.

I own the 23mm, 45mm and 90mm Sigma Contemporary. I don't feel like I've compromised one bit.

[beewee]

On 5/6/2022 at 6:19 PM, Sailronin said:

The Sigma 20-60 zoom seems pretty sharp to me....

Pretty sure you mean Panasonic 20-60mm since Sigma doesn’t make such a lens, nor does any other company.

Regarding the 14-24 DG DN, it is very good out to the very corners on a full frame sensor. Likewise, the 24/3.5 is exceedingly sharp at 100MP multishot, out to the corners when stopped down to f/5.6-8.

14-24 DG DN @ 2.8 on SL2-S

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24/3.5 uncropped on SL2-S

 

24/3.5 centre crop 100 MP multi-shot on SL2-S

24/3.5 top left corner crop @ 100 MP multi shot on SL2-S

[Chris W]

Lower quality jpeg of the Contemporary 90mm on an FP body. Zooming in the flies are sharp and detailed

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[Chris W]

45mm Sigma kit lens on the Leica CL

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Sailronin]

11 hours ago, beewee said:

Pretty sure you mean Panasonic 20-60mm since Sigma doesn’t make such a lens, nor does any other company.

So sorry, yes, it was the Panasonic 20-60mm

Here is a shot with the Sigma 150-600 at minimum focus distance shot with SL2-S

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