I’ve now had 3 x sl2 bodies fail.

[BernardC]

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16 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

Canon has entered the photojournalist market.

For mirrorless, yes. They've shared the press/sports with Nikon for 50 years, so it's not a new thing.

16 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

Leica SL has no market share.

Not for press work, which will come as no surprise to anyone, especially anyone at Leica. It's a very specialized market, dominated by two brands. Sony's recent attempts should be interesting to follow. It takes a lot of "marketing incentives" to make any headway, and the payoff isn't in the market itself, but rather in prestige. It's the old "win on Sunday sell on Monday" principle, except that it applies to the action on the sidelines rather than on the field.

Most Japanese brands have tried and failed to enter this market over the years: Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, etc. They all released prestige cameras with huge motor drives, extreme telephotos which were only ever produced in single-digit quantities and, most important, two-page spreads in photo mags featuring sponsored photographers. Many of us will remember the obligatory "system shot" in their brochures that showed the impressive expanse of their lens range, with the white elephant super-teles at the back dwarfing anything that a young photographer would actually purchase.

Leica has its own niche/prestige of course, which Canon, Nikon, and Sony can only dream of.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Kim Dahl]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

For mirrorless, yes. They've shared the press/sports with Nikon for 50 years, so it's not a new thing.

Not for press work, which will come as no surprise to anyone, especially anyone at Leica. It's a very specialized market, dominated by two brands. Sony's recent attempts should be interesting to follow. It takes a lot of "marketing incentives" to make any headway, and the payoff isn't in the market itself, but rather in prestige. It's the old "win on Sunday sell on Monday" principle, except that it applies to the action on the sidelines rather than on the field.

Most Japanese brands have tried and failed to enter this market over the years: Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, etc. They all released prestige cameras with huge motor drives, extreme telephotos which were only ever produced in single-digit quantities and, most important, two-page spreads in photo mags featuring sponsored photographers. Many of us will remember the obligatory "system shot" in their brochures that showed the impressive expanse of their lens range, with the white elephant super-teles at the back dwarfing anything that a young photographer would actually purchase.

Leica has its own niche/prestige of course, which Canon, Nikon, and Sony can only dream of.

I think you're right. Nikon and Canon are the market in my industry.  As you say, Sony has sneaked its way into the market.  It will be exciting if it holds now both canon and nikon have come with really good lens programs and fantastic AF preformence.  I think - even for Sony - it's going to be difficult.  However, Leica still has a small market with their M and later also Q2.  I initially thought the leica CL would come along.  But that was not the case.  But really Leica is somewhere else.  I want a leica when I have to do projects where I do not have to look like a press photographer and it is M and Q. 

[hdmesa]

Sounds like a bad batch of shutter mechanisms or the incorrect assembly thereof. Simplest explanation.

Using a Leica in your pro kit should be considered a luxury, IMO, and fallback should be at least two pro bodies from Canon, Nikon, or Sony – plus a membership to their respective pro services.

Edited April 19, 2022 by hdmesa

[Gavin Cato]

17 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Sounds like a bad batch of shutter mechanisms or the incorrect assembly thereof. Simplest explanation.

Using a Leica in your pro kit should be considered a luxury, IMO, and fallback should be at least two pro bodies from Canon, Nikon, or Sony – plus a membership to their respective pro services.

Yeah I thought bad batch, which could explain the first 2 bodies - but the 3rd body, the SL2-s was purchased a year or so later than those two.

Anyway whatever the reason is I've reluctantly moved on. I have a full canon kit here now.

I'm still debating how much Leica gear to keep. 

[hdmesa]

7 minutes ago, Gavin Cato said:

Yeah I thought bad batch, which could explain the first 2 bodies - but the 3rd body, the SL2-s was purchased a year or so later than those two.

Anyway whatever the reason is I've reluctantly moved on. I have a full canon kit here now.

I'm still debating how much Leica gear to keep. 

Incorrect assembly (combined with some bad luck on your part) could account for sporadic nature of it.

Canon Pro Services is wonderful should you ever have to use them. Leica's repair turn-around time would fill me with dread if I were a pro. It's crushing enough as a hobbyist.

[Gavin Cato]

18 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Incorrect assembly (combined with some bad luck on your part) could account for sporadic nature of it.

Canon Pro Services is wonderful should you ever have to use them. Leica's repair turn-around time would fill me with dread if I were a pro. It's crushing enough as a hobbyist.

love the shots on your insta. killer lighting.

And yeah I'm quite sure Leica Australia are falling foul of the regulations we have here about "repair in a reasonable time frame". 4 months for a $10k camera body is utterly absurd.

The staff at the Australian store are lovely, but that doesn't change the facts.

[hossegor]

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Am 11.4.2022 um 15:50 schrieb BernardC:

Interesting. Most people on the relevant threads (in this forum) have reported success after updating the camera firmware and the lens firmware. Are you getting the warning with all Panasonic lenses, or just specific ones? I only have the 20-60 from Panasonic, and a couple of Sigma lenses. None of those have issues, but perhaps some other lenses are still awaiting updates.

i tried it only with the 70-200 , which had the latest firmware and my SL2s, also latest firmware. i was going to buy the Pana lens, but decided to return it after this experience. Now i am considering switching to an R5 or so because i am not too happy about these kind of things. 

[Gavin Cato]

So a little update. I was waiting on some cfexpress cards to arrive so I could shoot the canon gear redundantly at a wedding. I've just finished 4 weddings in a row with 2 x R5's, a 28-70 f2, 50/1.2 and 85/1.2

The bad - it's quite a heavy setup (the 28-70 & 85 are bordering on comical), the camera bodies feel horrible to hold IMO vs a SL2 - more buttons than a suit store and I've got some red marks on my left hand (I'm a lefty) because the camera just doesn't really fit my hand that well for whatever reason. The dynamic range is not as good as the SL2 - well, I haven't tested them side by side or anything like that but I just notice the highlights seem easier to clip.

The good - the lenses are really very good. The 28-70 in particular is extraordinary. I'm not really a zoom guy but this lens really is like a bag of f/2 primes - albeit in an almost hilariously sized lens. The eye focus and AF in general is about a million times better than the SL2 and my candid percentage rate is through the roof on all these weddings. Stuff that I used to struggle with, i.e. the couple near sprinting back up the aisle whilst people toss confetti at them is childs play on the canon. 

I do prefer the 50/1.4 lux vs the Canon 50 1.2 and likewise I think the SL 90/2 has a better look to it than the ultra creamy canon 85 1.2 - but this is nit picking. They are still extremely good and well past the point of a client being happy.

Being able to reliably shoot at f/1.2 also really helps in low light. I was shooting dance shots before I got the flash out, at 1/250th with eye tracking at 50mm & 1.2 and well over 90% of shots in dim light in perfect focus. The high iso on the R5 is very good, but you don't often need to really stress it due to having f/1.2 on the glass so reliably.

At this point I'm returning the 3rd dead body to Leica on Friday - haven't had a chance to get out there. I'm debating whether to keep a slimmed down setup for weddings - for just the location photos (i.e. couples in fields / vineyards etc - not the ceremony/reception) or just keep a small kit for personal use. That 50/1.4 lux ain't going anywhere

Still a bit bummed about it all, but with so many weddings booked (I normally do 90'ish a year but this year it's up to 130 due to covid reschedules) I'm so busy I just can't think about if the gear will be dying. I really do love the Leica lenses, I just wish the body reliability and support was better.

 

 

 

 

[LBJ2]

17 hours ago, Gavin Cato said:

So a little update. I was waiting on some cfexpress cards to arrive so I could shoot the canon gear redundantly at a wedding. I've just finished 4 weddings in a row with 2 x R5's, a 28-70 f2, 50/1.2 and 85/1.2

The bad - it's quite a heavy setup (the 28-70 & 85 are bordering on comical), the camera bodies feel horrible to hold IMO vs a SL2 - more buttons than a suit store and I've got some red marks on my left hand (I'm a lefty) because the camera just doesn't really fit my hand that well for whatever reason. The dynamic range is not as good as the SL2 - well, I haven't tested them side by side or anything like that but I just notice the highlights seem easier to clip.

The good - the lenses are really very good. The 28-70 in particular is extraordinary. I'm not really a zoom guy but this lens really is like a bag of f/2 primes - albeit in an almost hilariously sized lens. The eye focus and AF in general is about a million times better than the SL2 and my candid percentage rate is through the roof on all these weddings. Stuff that I used to struggle with, i.e. the couple near sprinting back up the aisle whilst people toss confetti at them is childs play on the canon. 

I do prefer the 50/1.4 lux vs the Canon 50 1.2 and likewise I think the SL 90/2 has a better look to it than the ultra creamy canon 85 1.2 - but this is nit picking. They are still extremely good and well past the point of a client being happy.

Being able to reliably shoot at f/1.2 also really helps in low light. I was shooting dance shots before I got the flash out, at 1/250th with eye tracking at 50mm & 1.2 and well over 90% of shots in dim light in perfect focus. The high iso on the R5 is very good, but you don't often need to really stress it due to having f/1.2 on the glass so reliably.

At this point I'm returning the 3rd dead body to Leica on Friday - haven't had a chance to get out there. I'm debating whether to keep a slimmed down setup for weddings - for just the location photos (i.e. couples in fields / vineyards etc - not the ceremony/reception) or just keep a small kit for personal use. That 50/1.4 lux ain't going anywhere

Still a bit bummed about it all, but with so many weddings booked (I normally do 90'ish a year but this year it's up to 130 due to covid reschedules) I'm so busy I just can't think about if the gear will be dying. I really do love the Leica lenses, I just wish the body reliability and support was better.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the update. I've been curious how you are moving forward. 

Did you have a chance to reach out to anyone in a position of authority at Leica HQ? I would think it would be in the interest of Leica HQ to one, be aware of your unusual situation and two, investigate potential root cause of the multiple failures you are experiencing. If you are just going through their typical repair/service process, not sure if anyone involved would take the time to communicate your individual but multiple equipment failure situation to someone that might want to investigate and help. I'm sure their service/repair team processes repairs all day long so one guy with multiple failures might not even show up on their radar if each camera has been sent in individually. 

Not that you need to take any more time out of your day to address...

Edited April 26, 2022 by LBJ2

[matted]

On 4/12/2022 at 12:06 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

Going to first sport event after 2+ years of restrictions. Will be interesting to see, if any shift in photo pro gear.

I recently worked at my first sporting event in some years at the Rogers Centre and noticed a large increase in the number of Sony cameras, and mirrorless in general. Last I was there in 2018 it was all SLRs in the media pits, and pretty much only Nikon and Canon, with some using mirrorless for video. Now it is split pretty evenly between SLRs/mirrorless, and Nikon, Sony, Canon.

[Gavin Cato]

7 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Did you have a chance to reach out to anyone in a position of authority at Leica HQ? I would think it would be in the interest of Leica HQ to one, be aware of your unusual situation and two, investigate potential root cause of the multiple failures you are experiencing.

the leica Australia guys said they did that. it's really up to them to follow it up. I am not myself because nothing I say will reduce their repair times from 4 months to 1-2 weeks,   which is the main issue here with the reliability a close second.

I'm def keeping some leica gear though - took some pics of my kids just then for first day of school term on the sl2 and the lenses are so damn nice...

 

[hdmesa]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:16 PM, Gavin Cato said:

So a little update. I was waiting on some cfexpress cards to arrive so I could shoot the canon gear redundantly at a wedding. I've just finished 4 weddings in a row with 2 x R5's, a 28-70 f2, 50/1.2 and 85/1.2

The bad - it's quite a heavy setup (the 28-70 & 85 are bordering on comical), the camera bodies feel horrible to hold IMO vs a SL2 - more buttons than a suit store and I've got some red marks on my left hand (I'm a lefty) because the camera just doesn't really fit my hand that well for whatever reason. The dynamic range is not as good as the SL2 - well, I haven't tested them side by side or anything like that but I just notice the highlights seem easier to clip.

The good - the lenses are really very good. The 28-70 in particular is extraordinary. I'm not really a zoom guy but this lens really is like a bag of f/2 primes - albeit in an almost hilariously sized lens. The eye focus and AF in general is about a million times better than the SL2 and my candid percentage rate is through the roof on all these weddings. Stuff that I used to struggle with, i.e. the couple near sprinting back up the aisle whilst people toss confetti at them is childs play on the canon. 

I do prefer the 50/1.4 lux vs the Canon 50 1.2 and likewise I think the SL 90/2 has a better look to it than the ultra creamy canon 85 1.2 - but this is nit picking. They are still extremely good and well past the point of a client being happy.

Being able to reliably shoot at f/1.2 also really helps in low light. I was shooting dance shots before I got the flash out, at 1/250th with eye tracking at 50mm & 1.2 and well over 90% of shots in dim light in perfect focus. The high iso on the R5 is very good, but you don't often need to really stress it due to having f/1.2 on the glass so reliably.

At this point I'm returning the 3rd dead body to Leica on Friday - haven't had a chance to get out there. I'm debating whether to keep a slimmed down setup for weddings - for just the location photos (i.e. couples in fields / vineyards etc - not the ceremony/reception) or just keep a small kit for personal use. That 50/1.4 lux ain't going anywhere

Still a bit bummed about it all, but with so many weddings booked (I normally do 90'ish a year but this year it's up to 130 due to covid reschedules) I'm so busy I just can't think about if the gear will be dying. I really do love the Leica lenses, I just wish the body reliability and support was better.

If you go all-in with Canon, you might try the R3 as your third body. It might better fit your grip, the BSI sensor may be easier on the highlights, and it may help tame the 28-70 and 85 1.2.

I never had an issue with highlights on the R5. You might try using a different metering mode in case it helps. I used Center Weighted Average because it seemed I had to dial back the exposure comp less often that way. If I recall correctly, the default metering gives precedence to where the AF focus box is, and since the AF focus box jumps around everywhere when using eye-AF, that can sometimes lead to brighter than expected exposures.

[Kim Dahl]

9 hours ago, Gavin Cato said:

the leica Australia guys said they did that. it's really up to them to follow it up. I am not myself because nothing I say will reduce their repair times from 4 months to 1-2 weeks,   which is the main issue here with the reliability a close second.

I'm def keeping some leica gear though - took some pics of my kids just then for first day of school term on the sl2 and the lenses are so damn nice...

 

I would also say - try the Canon R3 - especially with the big 20-70 f. 2 and 85 1.2 there is a great grip.  The colors are good.  Low light is amazing and eye tragging is a came change.  There will be an R1 maybe you have to wait and see what it contains.  For sports and fast things, you will find that the R3 beats everything.  It's the best I've tried.  Better again than R5.  With that number of tasks - forget all about the Leica SL.  A small Q2 will serve you well.  Along with your Canon.

[Alistairm]

Another vote for the R3. I’m selling my R5 as I haven’t missed the megapixels and prefer everything about the R3. It is a shame the Canon lenses are so big, but at least they’re outstanding in terms of output.

[Gavin Cato]

Yeah thanks guys, completely agree the R3 would be a much better body. 

I really want the 45mp though, but I'll be all over a future R2/R1 body whenever it comes out.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Gavin Cato

[hdmesa]

On 4/28/2022 at 3:36 PM, Gavin Cato said:

Yeah thanks guys, completely agree the R3 would be a much better body. 

I really want the 45mp though, but I'll be all over a future R2/R1 body whenever it comes out.

Yeah, the A1 and Z9 really nailed the high-res + high-speed capture, and we need Canon’s version now. Nikon has put Canon in a tight place with regard to pricing, though. Hopefully the R1 will exceed the Z9 in ways that will justify the price.

[Kim Dahl]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:53 AM, Kim Dahl said:

beats

 

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Yeah, the A1 and Z9 really nailed the high-res + high-speed capture, and we need Canon’s version now. Nikon has put Canon in a tight place with regard to pricing, though. Hopefully the R1 will exceed the Z9 in ways that will justify the price.

Yes it will be exciting to see what happens with the Canon R1 - because the Nikon Z9 is fantastic.  But very heavy.  And if you are into bird photography and nature then take a look at their new 800mm f6.3 - insanely low price and good quality.  That lens could make me buy Nikon.  (next to my Canon) I do not think Canon for the time being going to do similar.  Their 800mm f5.6 costs about 4 times as much…. 

[lx1713]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:46 AM, Gavin Cato said:

Different lenses - I remember when the first body died, it was with the sigma 14-24 - can't remember the 2nd body lens, the 3rd body was only a few days ago so I clearly remember it was the 90/2.

With the ES only / MS test - I'll let leica do that. I agree that would be a good test but it's a test that could potentially take months to find the result of.

 

Everything is stored in a huge gun safe - no guns, it's just a huge safe as the entire kit is worth a fortune. As far as I know it's decently dry - my passport and other papers etc. are in the same safe and I've never seen anything damp.

I do agree with this but when they work - I really like the SL2. The canon r5 I have sitting here feels like a silly plastic toy with a billion buttons all over it. Nothing wrong with the files from it though.

I'm going to keep a single SL2 for personal use and keep my fave lenses, the 35/2, 50/1.4, 90-280 and sell the rest.

 

I think you misunderstood me. I meant while you are shooting in an event, how do you keep your batteries ready to replace when your camera's battery runs flat. If your batteries are soaked in perspiration during your work, it may not work properly.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[lx1713]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:12 PM, tom0511 said:

Personally I can not see/experience the SL2(s) to be less or more pro quality than the SL. Except I preferred the 4 buttons of the SL.

However I remember when the original SL came out some Leica guy said they built it without IBIS because it was more solid this way.

 

 

You may have hit the nail on the head. Years ago a Canon technician told me why they have so many lenses on standby for the Olympics. They have crates of replacement image stabilisation parts for those telephotos. Apparently, you are supposed to shut down the camera to lock down the mechanism. And most photographers don't bother to, they just run with the camera and lens left on. I never used an IS lens because they had too many issues but I never knew the reason until many years after.

Perhaps Gavin, you may be moving and stopping very quickly (violently?) And that may affect the unit in some way. I'm pretty gentle with my movements and I don't use a two camera setup where I may just let go of one camera to switch to a different camera.

[lx1713]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:16 AM, Gavin Cato said:

So a little update. I was waiting on some cfexpress cards to arrive so I could shoot the canon gear redundantly at a wedding. I've just finished 4 weddings in a row with 2 x R5's, a 28-70 f2, 50/1.2 and 85/1.2

The bad - it's quite a heavy setup (the 28-70 & 85 are bordering on comical), the camera bodies feel horrible to hold IMO vs a SL2 - more buttons than a suit store and I've got some red marks on my left hand (I'm a lefty) because the camera just doesn't really fit my hand that well for whatever reason. The dynamic range is not as good as the SL2 - well, I haven't tested them side by side or anything like that but I just notice the highlights seem easier to clip.

The good - the lenses are really very good. The 28-70 in particular is extraordinary. I'm not really a zoom guy but this lens really is like a bag of f/2 primes - albeit in an almost hilariously sized lens. The eye focus and AF in general is about a million times better than the SL2 and my candid percentage rate is through the roof on all these weddings. Stuff that I used to struggle with, i.e. the couple near sprinting back up the aisle whilst people toss confetti at them is childs play on the canon. 

I do prefer the 50/1.4 lux vs the Canon 50 1.2 and likewise I think the SL 90/2 has a better look to it than the ultra creamy canon 85 1.2 - but this is nit picking. They are still extremely good and well past the point of a client being happy.

Being able to reliably shoot at f/1.2 also really helps in low light. I was shooting dance shots before I got the flash out, at 1/250th with eye tracking at 50mm & 1.2 and well over 90% of shots in dim light in perfect focus. The high iso on the R5 is very good, but you don't often need to really stress it due to having f/1.2 on the glass so reliably.

At this point I'm returning the 3rd dead body to Leica on Friday - haven't had a chance to get out there. I'm debating whether to keep a slimmed down setup for weddings - for just the location photos (i.e. couples in fields / vineyards etc - not the ceremony/reception) or just keep a small kit for personal use. That 50/1.4 lux ain't going anywhere

Still a bit bummed about it all, but with so many weddings booked (I normally do 90'ish a year but this year it's up to 130 due to covid reschedules) I'm so busy I just can't think about if the gear will be dying. I really do love the Leica lenses, I just wish the body reliability and support was better.

 

 

 

 

Good to hear that you have some level of resolution and your jobs are increasing 😃.  I just added a 50 lux too. But I will not let go of my 50 f2 both are great lenses.