28 Summilux vs. 28 Summicron Asph V2

[hdmesa]

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Just now, Huss said:

Interesting point.  As a film shooter who uses 28s from mid distance to infinity primarily, I had not noticed that!  But now I am intrigued and will test it on my 10r!

I also think stopped down to f/4-5.6 with central subjects there may be some more subject separation from the Ultron at closer distances – perhaps due to the vignetting plus the insanely high micro and macro contrast.

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[Ouroboros]

I’m seeing a few comments here about how much better the Ultron is than the summicron, but I’m not seeing anything at all to support the claim in any of the Ultron images posted here.

The 28 summicron asph has been central to my Leica M lens selection for years and still is, my first  was a v1 which I changed for a safari edition in ‘21 mainly for the more sensible slide-and-lock hood. 

Some contributors here who are critical of the summicron seem to have both the summicron and Ultron, so how about posting some comparison images to back up the opinions?  

 So far, I’m either missing something in the images or I’m wasting my time reading forum bs.

Let’s see some definitive comparison examples, please!  If the Ultron is the genuinely better lens, I might be tempted.

 

 

[IkarusJohn]

Some years ago, I bought the v1 28 Summicron ASPH.  I tried it, and couldn’t get images I liked from it - probably my incompetence,  but it just didn’t work for me, much like the 35 Summicron ASPH.

I now use the 28 Summaron and Summilux, and much prefer that combination.

I don’t really find any M lenses big, compared to the SL lenses, the XCD lenses and Nikon lenses I can from.

[LarsHP]

4 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I’m seeing a few comments here about how much better the Ultron is than the summicron, but I’m not seeing anything at all to support the claim in any of the Ultron images posted here.

The 28 summicron asph has been central to my Leica M lens selection for years and still is, my first  was a v1 which I changed for a safari edition in ‘21 mainly for the more sensible slide-and-lock hood. 

Some contributors here who are critical of the summicron seem to have both the summicron and Ultron, so how about posting some comparison images to back up the opinions?  

 So far, I’m either missing something in the images or I’m wasting my time reading forum bs.

Let’s see some definitive comparison examples, please!  If the Ultron is the genuinely better lens, I might be tempted.
 

Check some of my images here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ngYCuU1OzRZVbnbjGtwge1Mx78vuUp8q

Most are with the Ultron v2, but there are some side-by-side test shots as well.

[Photoworks]

22 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

Check some of my images here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ngYCuU1OzRZVbnbjGtwge1Mx78vuUp8q

Most are with the Ultron v2, but there are some side-by-side test shots as well.

They are both great lenses, but if you shoot the leica lens on an M body you would get vignetting correction a bit better controlled.

i went for the ULTRON II, Summilux because you can't beet the 1.4 look, and a TT 28 5.6 that i use occasionally for softer look with flare.

 

Here is a n image from the LUX...

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Buddy Appleweed

M11 Summilux 28mm

 

https://www.instagram.com/kroke/

 

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, LarsHP said:

Check some of my images here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ngYCuU1OzRZVbnbjGtwge1Mx78vuUp8q

Most are with the Ultron v2, but there are some side-by-side test shots as well.

Thanks, but the first and only image I opened was a vignette comparison taken with an adapted lens on a Nikon Z6 which isn’t really appropriate.  If you can upload some comparison images taken with a (preferably recent) digital M, I’ll take a look.

[hdmesa]

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8 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I’m seeing a few comments here about how much better the Ultron is than the summicron, but I’m not seeing anything at all to support the claim in any of the Ultron images posted here.

The 28 summicron asph has been central to my Leica M lens selection for years and still is, my first  was a v1 which I changed for a safari edition in ‘21 mainly for the more sensible slide-and-lock hood. 

Some contributors here who are critical of the summicron seem to have both the summicron and Ultron, so how about posting some comparison images to back up the opinions?  

 So far, I’m either missing something in the images or I’m wasting my time reading forum bs.

Let’s see some definitive comparison examples, please!  If the Ultron is the genuinely better lens, I might be tempted.

 

 

I much prefer the Cron for the reasons I've mentioned already: smoother bokeh across the frame, no "swirl" at f/2 at close distance with busy backgrounds, and mostly because it doesn't have that "hyper contrast" look of the Ultron. I love how calm the Cron rendering is. 

But the only criticism of the Cron here has been by some wanting another option with more character for use on film. I don't think anyone had any IQ problems with the Cron or said the Ultron had better IQ. 

 

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

...if you shoot the leica lens on an M body you would get vignetting correction a bit better controlled...

Even with lens corrections turned off, the Cron has noticeably less vignetting at f/2 than the Ultron. 

[Huss]

7 hours ago, Steven said:

Awesome, you're a 28 die hard shooter! Which one is your favourite ? Mines are the Summilux and the Summaron. Although I just reacquired an elmarit ASPH that I had been hunting for a long time. Silver. 

Daylight - the TTA 28 5.6 as I love a compact camera/lens combo and this lens (on film) is much better than it should be.  This would be replaced by the black Summaron if I had one...

All around? Summicron Asph v2.

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, Steven said:

...

- the micro contrast makes it less dull in my opinion than the cron. It kind of has that Q2 look that make people look like there are going to come out of the image. 

You have the v1 28 Cron, right? Could have been a coatings tweak for the v2. The v2 still doesn't have the crazy microcontrast of the Ultron, but it's by no means dull, at least on digital.

I wonder the Cron on film it may be better suited to a higher contrast stock than the Portra stock you like to use. Portra by Kodak's intent is very neutral and keyed to skin tones. Portra has morphed into something else today due to the processing preferences. Back in the day, when I had Portra developed by a large professional portrait lab (had to prove business ID, did not service the general public) and printed on Kodak's pro portrait paper, the look was unlike anything I see produced with it today. Just thinking out loud here, that you may be caught in the trap of matching your lenses to your film stocks versus finding some freedom to do the reverse.

Edited May 9, 2023 by hdmesa

[hdmesa]

35 minutes ago, Huss said:

...the black Summaron if I had one...

It's only money https://www.ebay.com/itm/155436389356

[Huss]

8 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

It's only money https://www.ebay.com/itm/155436389356

Yah, that ain't gonna happen!  I just don't get why Leica did not/does not make that a regular product.

[hdmesa]

15 minutes ago, Huss said:

Yah, that ain't gonna happen!  I just don't get why Leica did not/does not make that a regular product.

One minute the limited edition version is silver, the next minute, it's matte black. Makes no sense at all. I would love to see Leica make the regular version of a lens in brass and black paint then make the limited edition anodized black. The fools would still pay $$$ to have the limited one.

[hdmesa]

3 minutes ago, Steven said:

I have the silver and the titanium. I think they are both V1. At least the silver is. The titane one as a screw in hood so maybe it's v2. I like neither. 

Yes, the titanium is a v2 👍

[hdmesa]

7 minutes ago, Steven said:

...I like neither...

28 is tougher than 35 for me. I like the Cron ok, but I don't love it. I don't like the Ultron at all, mainly because of the external design. The Lux is wonderful on the SL2-S, but it's not my favorite to use on a film M just because of the size.

Only 28 I really love is the Summaron with the Q lens a close second.

Haven't tried the Elmarit yet. Nice score on getting the silver one. The hood is too long on the regular version for my liking.

[Photon42]

I have had the Summicron 28 v1 as one of my first Leica lenses (on the M8 it was closer to a 35mm FOV...) until the end of 2021. After lots of thinking between the Lux and Cron I finally decided to stay with the Cron but update to v2 version. Jono Slack I think wrote a quite nice comparison of the two. To my knowledge Peter Karbe once said the three different 28mm lenses in the Leica M line-up effectively only differ in the maximum aperture, but I cannot find the reference anymore.

The driver for me was that I really enjoy the handling of the lens, picture quality (there is nothing dull about this lens) and of course compact size and weight. It just feels right on the M for me. And it has a filter thread of 46mm, just like for instance the 50 Lux and the 90 Summarit.

[Terin]

23 hours ago, Steven said:

I find the cron to be to dull.

 

I'd like to understand what you mean when you define a goal as "boring". Photos can sure be boring, but a lens?

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

...the 28 summaron to be a bit dull. It has no signature. It brings nothing to the table...

Assuming you meant to type Summicron instead

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, Terin said:

I'd like to understand what you mean when you define a goal as "boring". Photos can sure be boring, but a lens?

I'll give my own two cents: Agree with Steven that the 28 Cron has "no signature", but to me, that is its signature. It's an extremely well-corrected lens that doesn't impose its own will into the image as do many lenses with more flaws (character). Images on the M11 taken with the 28 Cron ASPH look exactly like shots taken on the GFX 100S with the GF 30 f/3.5. The result is near technical perfection.

That said, the 28 Cron still has some nice vignetting at f/2, which I think keeps it from being completely without character – provided you shoot it without the lens profile corrections applied.

28 Cron on the M11:

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Look here: Leica M

[LarsHP]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:57 PM, Ouroboros said:

Thanks, but the first and only image I opened was a vignette comparison taken with an adapted lens on a Nikon Z6 which isn’t really appropriate.  If you can upload some comparison images taken with a (preferably recent) digital M, I’ll take a look.

It isn't a stock Z6 (which would be useless; agreed). It's an Ultra-Thin sensor glass converted Z6 (by Kolari Vision). Regarding field curvature / plane of focus, it behaves like a digital Leica M camera. This is not guesswork. I have tested that camera versus an M 240 with the 28mm Summicron-M Asph II. The Z6UT had more vignetting, but way less color shift / Italian flag issue. So, you can safely go back and check the images. 😉😁

[Marckyokay]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:49 AM, Steven said:

Awesome, you're a 28 die hard shooter! Which one is your favourite ? Mines are the Summilux and the Summaron. Although I just reacquired an elmarit ASPH that I had been hunting for a long time. Silver. 

Show us that silver Elmarit you devil.

Been wanting that gorgeous little thing… Can’t justify the price it goes for these days.

Count me jealous!