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28 Summilux vs. 28 Summicron Asph V2


Nick Lo

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Hi all. Do any of you guys have/had these two lenses and what is your opinion? Is it worth to get 28 summilux?

I understand the f/1.4 one stop speed and DOF advantage of the summilux and those will be factors for the decision. But with the high ISO performance on the M10-R, I don't mind bump up the ISO for a stop and clean up the noise in PP later. Of course, the lux has an upper hand here anyway. But what is your take?

I am also aware of the weight difference ( 288g vs. 440g) as well as the RF corner blockage by the lux. I definitely will not have problem with the crons but I can imagine I can work with the lux. But I wonder if that extra 150g wil become very noticeable if holding the camera /wearing the camera for longer time?

I don't consider the Q or Q2 as I want something that can be mount to different M bodies. 

So other determining factors are:

1. Sharpness wide open and close down

2. Sharpness close focus vs, infinity focus.

3. contrast and micro contrast

3. Color rendering

4. distortion ( I know that is a problem with the lux when shoot close with certain angle)

5.Bokeh quality . I know th e lux will produce more blurred background, but how much of difference given they are 28mm. More importantly, how's the quality of the bokeh.

Thank you!

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Welcome here Nick Lo.

😉

You had done quite good researches.

Only lack are practices.

 

As usual, my suggestion is buy one ( yes the one that is available now) , take time to learn the lens, then you had

done half way of your journey or if the lens is good for you, you've got it THE lens.

 

Arnaud

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8 hours ago, Nick Lo said:

Hi all. Do any of you guys have/had these two lenses and what is your opinion? Is it worth to get 28 summilux?

I understand the f/1.4 one stop speed and DOF advantage of the summilux and those will be factors for the decision. But with the high ISO performance on the M10-R, I don't mind bump up the ISO for a stop and clean up the noise in PP later. Of course, the lux has an upper hand here anyway. But what is your take?

I am also aware of the weight difference ( 288g vs. 440g) as well as the RF corner blockage by the lux. I definitely will not have problem with the crons but I can imagine I can work with the lux. But I wonder if that extra 150g wil become very noticeable if holding the camera /wearing the camera for longer time?

I don't consider the Q or Q2 as I want something that can be mount to different M bodies. 

So other determining factors are:

1. Sharpness wide open and close down

2. Sharpness close focus vs, infinity focus.

3. contrast and micro contrast

3. Color rendering

4. distortion ( I know that is a problem with the lux when shoot close with certain angle)

5.Bokeh quality . I know th e lux will produce more blurred background, but how much of difference given they are 28mm. More importantly, how's the quality of the bokeh.

Thank you!

I had 28 elmarit previously, but for last 6 years I've used summilux 28mm. I loved 28mm elmarit. I remember, that I purchased it on the opinion of Jono Slack, who somehow prefer it over summicron. It was small, very sharp, with high contrast, in one word, perfect lens. I used it a lot for street photography (aperture 8, didn't touch focus ring at all) and everything was sharp. But than come out summilux 28 - at that time lens with moder technical solution (coating, etc), with excellent microcontrast and not even mentioned smooth bookeh, and I was sold. Local dealer just got one copy, and I didn't hesitate. Now, after 6 years I can say that hanging around with small elmarit was very comfortable, but I did not regret one moment, that I change it for summilux. It is not just microcontrast of the lens, overall excellent sharpnes, and bookeh - they are all wonderfull - 1,4 aperture is also very fine for nice, smooth portrets. Weight is not the problem. Lens is well balanced, especially with M 240, where I use hand grip, but also on M 10R, which I use it without it. 

Why I wrote all this? It is not the comparison between cron and lux, but will probably gives you encouragement not to hesitate, if your decission favour summilux! 

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You would do well to also consider the Voigtlander Ultron 28 f/2 II “Vintage Series” that competes very well with, and perhaps even beats, the Summicron. When factoring in the price it really is no contest. I know many will not consider non-Leica lenses but this one really is superb. I just picked mine up a couple of weeks ago and am incredibly happy with it so far. 

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I should mention that I did not personally test the Summicron vs the Ultron II, but many others have and as best I can tell, the main differences are that the Ultron vignettes a bit more wide open, and the bokeh is different; the Ultron has a bit of "swirl" when wide open, which I wouldn't say is better or worse, as that is very subjective.

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I have the Summilux 28mm. Its a great lens, however I don't use f1.4 that often and think about changing to a smaller lens like the 28/2.0II or CV.

The Summilux shows some purple fringing and quite some vignetting wide open. The shallow DOF is nice sometimes, but its kind of a special effect which doesn't work for all subjects.

Would be great to have all these lenses in hand to compare. I wonder how the 28 Summicron and Summilux and Elmarit compare at comparable f-stops.

I also have the 28/5.6. Its a fun lens, you know its not the best corner sharpness, but overall a very classic film like IQ IMO.

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My first Leica lens was a 35 Summicron ASPH v1 - when I bought my M9, I couldn't decipher all those lens names and speeds.  It was very confusing.  So, Meister Camera in Berlin just recommended the Summicron as it was Leica's biggest selling lens (apparently).

But when I started looking at more pictures, I found the 28mm field of view more interesting - the wider view seemed to give more drama.  So, I bought the 28 Summicron ASPH v1.  I never used the ridiculous hood, opting for a nicer metal "petal" vented hood.  For some reason I can't explain, the 28 Summicron just seemed too much like a wider version of the 35 Summicron - a bit meh.  Some would say "boring', but apparently that offends some.  It just didn't excite me at all.  I sold it.

When the 28 Summilux came out, I bought one, and couldn't be happier.  I don't just use it wide open - it's great stopped down, giving you greater depth of field, but retaining that lovely smooth out of focus treatment.  I don't regret my decision at all, and I have also since added the 28 Summaron-M.

The original 28 Summicron-M ASPH, which I had, performed very badly on the SL.  Leica released a version 2 of both the 28 & 35 Summicrons, which apparently solved the problem.

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I feel fortunate as I own both the 1.4 Summliux and a Summicron V2 Safari. I can say that anytime I need a 28mm… I always tend to grab the Lux as the lens renders pure magic; it’s wonderful at MFD as well as wide open and stopped down, and really shines with beautiful micro contrast and sharp crisp details. It’s hard to characterize the Lux but everything just looks better when you shoot with it 🙂. Yeah, when shooting color it has some purple fringing in the extreme at wide open but 1 click and a slider in LR and it’s gone. The v2 Summicron is a nice lens as well but it just lacks any character compared to the Summilux. Deciding between the two really just depends on the look and feel that you are after… they are very different lenses. Btw- I use the Lux with various bodies (M10-R, M10M, and M10P).

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28 is my favourite FoV and I am lucky to have both (dont ask why), they are both great lenses. The Lux is amazing and very cinematic, the Cron is a very solid all rounder.

I tend to use the cron on film quite a lot and on the monochrome and landscapes. The pastel colours are lovely to my eyes but others may prefer more oomph

i tend to use the Lux for portraits with context and low light, but it really is an all rounder too, I just would prefer to bring the cron if I go for a hike or am out all day

You cannot go wrong with either

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Yes, it's worth it 😄

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

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Ok, convinced. I will not sell my Lux , at least not having compared it directly over a period of time to the SummicronII.

But how do you describe cinematic and magic? If I would shoot my 28 lux at f2.0 and summicronII at f2.0 , in which aspect should I expect a difference?

 

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2 hours ago, harmen said:

Yes, it's worth it 😄

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Knowing how much viewfinder blockage the 28mm Summilux + hood has this photo was pure luck, you couldn't have possibly known that there was something in the right bottom corner. :D

Jokes aside.. tried both briefly, liked the Summilux much more (it is splendid at 1.4!) but the size is really not for me.. gave up on both and bought a Summaron instead. One year later I'm searching again for a faster 28mm .. I love the Summaron but sometimes I really miss a couple of stops.

I was always disregarding Voigtlander but after getting my hands on a Nokton Classic 35mm SC (amazing for B&W film!) I think I should probably try the Ultron 28 f/2 II “Vintage Series” before going back to the Summilux - Summicron dilemma. 

 

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I was torn between the Summilux and Summicron v2 when a Summilux came up for a pretty good price and I bought it.  As fate would have it, the very next week a Summicron appeared at a great price and I jumped on it thinking I could compare them both, figure out my preference then sell the other one.  Four years later and I'm still trying to figure it out.  In a gun-to-my-head scenario, I'd pick the Summilux. The only knock against it is the bulk relative to the Summicron, which comes into play if I'm juggling multiple lenses.  I have no problem carrying the Summilux all day, but it does feel less discreet if that's a concern.

 

On 4/4/2022 at 3:42 PM, tom0511 said:

Would be great to have all these lenses in hand to compare. I wonder how the 28 Summicron and Summilux and Elmarit compare at comparable f-stops.

Here's a test I did at the height of pandemic boredom between the Summilux, Summicron v2, Elmarit v3 and Elmarit v4 at max aperture. This test doesn't really lend itself to judging sharpness, but it does give a general sense of the differences in relative feel wide open.

 

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For those curious, I did a quick test between the 28 Lux (on M11), 28 Ultron V2 (M11), and the Q2. I have done them from F1.4-2.8.

 

You can download the images here for your pixel peeping pleasure:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9iq8l11z2yc3wbo/AAA2uToui__FTC8qTCRBnh38a?dl=0

 

PS, the stack of cash on the right is prop money. 

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On 4/4/2022 at 10:41 PM, matted said:

You would do well to also consider the Voigtlander Ultron 28 f/2 II “Vintage Series” that competes very well with, and perhaps even beats, the Summicron. When factoring in the price it really is no contest. I know many will not consider non-Leica lenses but this one really is superb. I just picked mine up a couple of weeks ago and am incredibly happy with it so far. 

The Ultron 28/2 v2 is, as you say, optically excellent. I compared it to the Summicron 28 ASPH v1 and found that near wide open the Ultron was better in the corners. However, for me the haptics of the CV Vintage Series lenses leave a lot to be desired (I also have the Ultron 35/2 v2). They are both too small and fiddly for my taste. Having purchased a Matte Black Summicron 28 ASPH today, I’ll be happy to sell the Ultron 28 to someone who will appreciate it more than I do.

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Thank you all for contributing to the discussion and giving advice! I am still debating but it will come to a conclusion in a week or two I believe!

Here is what I've read, seen and heard so far: 

Summilux: $7800 USD

Pros: The most handsome 28mm M mount lens, full Leica updated design language, best built quality, Authentic Leica handling experience, neutral colors, unbeatable micro-contrast and 3D pops, best bokeh quality, the sharpest Leica 28mm ( Close/mid range /infinity), fastest (f/1.4), it's rendering is hard to describe but unique,  Well distortion control most of time.

Cons: Very expensive, heavy, blocking a big portion of the range finder, quite strong CA in high contrast scene, distortion when shooting close at certain angle. 

 

Summicron ASPH V2: $5100 USD

Pros: Compact but still handsome, much lighter than the Summilux, best built quality, does not block the range finder as much,  Full Leica updated design language. Authentic Leica handling experience, mute color, very good micro-contrast although it's behind the Summilux by a noticeable margin, sharper than all other Leica 28mm except the Summilux, great CA control, no distortion, busier bokeh towards the edge in some rare situations.  

Cons: Still expensive, somehow lack of character, mute color, very slight green color cast, less pop relatively, not as sharp as the Voigtlander Ultron II, surprisingly. 

 

Voigtlander Ultron II: $899 + hood ($79)

Pros: Cheap, Light, Very Small, focus tab, great built quality, great manual handling experience ( some say comparable to the cron), excellent micro-contrast, rich color, pop outputs, sharper than the Summicron, sharp corner to corner,  virtually doesn't block the range finder, MFD 0.5m,

Cons: Too small and that makes the handling experience less satisfying comparing to the crons and lux. Focus ring QC issue on some copies? Very strong vignetting, CA stronger than the Summicron, Magenta color cast, Hood costs extra, The design is totally different from the modern Leica lens, No focus ring haptics to hint users at 0.7m, swirl/busier bokeh close to extreme edges  sometimes. 

 

Summilux is the best performer but the price and size make me have a second thought... Anyone chose VM Ultron II over Summicron? The more I look at the outputs of the VM 28 Ultron II, the more I like it. But I concern about the handling experience is not on par with the Leica lenses ( smoothness of the focus ring vs. Leica? aperture ring too tight? Focus by feel usability? Is the size too small to be comfortable?), The little CA and bokeh look at the edges do not bother me at all. I am not a fan of its look and design though I believe I can live with it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nick Lo
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2 hours ago, Nick Lo said:

Thank you all for contributing to the discussion and giving advice! I am still debating but it will come to a conclusion in a week or two I believe!

Here is what I've read, seen and heard so far: 

Summilux: $7800 USD

Pros: The most handsome 28mm M mount lens, full Leica updated design language, best built quality, Authentic Leica handling experience, neutral colors, unbeatable micro-contrast and 3D pops, best bokeh quality, the sharpest Leica 28mm ( Close/mid range /infinity), fastest (f/1.4), it's rendering is hard to describe but unique,  Well distortion control most of time.

Cons: Very expensive, heavy, blocking a big portion of the range finder, quite strong CA in high contrast scene, distortion when shooting close at certain angle. 

 

Summicron ASPH V2: $5100 USD

Pros: Compact but still handsome, much lighter than the Summilux, best built quality, does not block the range finder as much,  Full Leica updated design language. Authentic Leica handling experience, mute color, very good micro-contrast although it's behind the Summilux by a noticeable margin, sharper than all other Leica 28mm except the Summilux, great CA control, no distortion, busier bokeh towards the edge in some rare situations.  

Cons: Still expensive, somehow lack of character, mute color, very slight green color cast, less pop relatively, not as sharp as the Voigtlander Ultron II, surprisingly. 

 

Voigtlander Ultron II: $899 + hood ($79)

Pros: Cheap, Light, Very Small, focus tab, great built quality, great manual handling experience ( some say comparable to the cron), excellent micro-contrast, rich color, pop outputs, sharper than the Summicron, sharp corner to corner,  virtually doesn't block the range finder, MFD 0.5m,

Cons: Too small and that makes the handling experience less satisfying comparing to the crons and lux. Focus ring QC issue on some copies? Very strong vignetting, CA stronger than the Summicron, Magenta color cast, Hood costs extra, The design is totally different from the modern Leica lens, No focus ring haptics to hint users at 0.7m, swirl/busier bokeh close to extreme edges  sometimes. 

 

Summilux is the best performer but the price and size make me have a second thought... Anyone chose VM Ultron II over Summicron? The more I look at the outputs of the VM 28 Ultron II, the more I like it. But I concern about the handling experience is not on par with the Leica lenses ( smoothness of the focus ring vs. Leica? aperture ring too tight? Focus by feel usability? Is the size too small to be comfortable?), The little CA and bokeh look at the edges do not bother me at all. I am not a fan of its look and design though I believe I can live with it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good summary with one exception. In the Pros section for the Ultron II you wrote: “great manual handling experience (some say comparable to the Cron)” which contradicts both my own experience (admittedly subjective) but more importantly it contradicts what you wrote in the Cons section, “Too small and that makes the handling experience less satisfying comparing to the crons and lux”. The Ultron’s handling can’t be “great” and “comparable” to the Cron (i.e. as good as the Cron) and also “less satisfying” than the Cron. 

I have both the Summilux and the latest Summicron 28mm lenses. My original intention had been to pair the Lux with the Ultron II, the former to be used at or near wide open and the latter for zone focusing at f/8. The Ultron’s rotten (for me!) handling prompted me to replace it with a Cron. That notwithstanding, I would strongly recommend that you get the Ultron II because haptics (handling) is totally subjective and you may well find that the Ultron is perfectly acceptable for you in that regard. If that turns out to be the case, you will have an optically superb lens at a fraction of the cost of either of the Leica alternatives. If you don’t like Ultron II, then you can sell it at a relatively insignificant loss and use what you’ve learned to choose between the Cron and the Lux.

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6 hours ago, Nick Lo said:

Summicron ASPH V2: $5100 USD

...

Cons: ...mute color, very slight green color cast, less pop relatively, not as sharp as the Voigtlander Ultron II, surprisingly. 

...

I take issue with this part of the 28 Cron "cons" listed, at least when used on the M10-R. From the 28 Cron Safari I had for a while: color was on par with Lux (if you want muted color, try the 50 Cron :) ), no color cast other than what Leica sensors already have which is slightly green (IMO), microcontrast wide open was better than Lux wide open, and sharpness was incredible – as good as my CV 35 APO, so I don't think an Ultron could surpass it. It's possible Leica has improved the quality control of this lens for later copies, or perhaps the Safari version was given special attention during assembly/testing.

Edited by hdmesa
screwy grammar as usual
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I used  all 28 lenses Elmarit, Summicron, Summilux over the past years (all in recent versions). I sold Elmarit (too slow) and Summilux (for me too heavy for traveling, not discreet enough for street photography, anoying purple fringing). I kept the Summicron as the ideal lens of both worlds - fast and nice bokeeh at a compact size. Bookeh and separation is closer to the Summilux than to the Elmarit, which you can see in the nice comparison of Lids above as well. For me Leica stands for compactness at highest quality - I am missing both with the Summilux (purple fringing not acceptable at this price tag). Of course I liked the bookeh of the Lux wide open but bookeh of the Cron is great  as well. Differences are seen in direct comparison of the two lenses. My conclusion: Why to pay and carry more than needed?

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