Best Non-APO 50mm lens for a M.

[pippy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, lct said:

...objectively, it cannot compete with the Summilux 50/1.4 asph on any ground but size, weight...

Two aspects of fundamental importance which illustrate why, considering both of these lenses objectively, the Summicron would be the more rational choice......or are you being subjective about what you consider to be objective?

Pesonally I didn't mention the Summicron v4 / v5 previously because the OP specifically asked about lenses faster than f2.

Philip.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[lct]

54 minutes ago, pippy said:

Two aspects of fundamental importance which illustrate why, considering both of these lenses objectively, the Summicron would be the more rational choice......or are you being subjective about what you consider to be objective?

Pesonally I didn't mention the Summicron v4 / v5 previously because the OP specifically asked about lenses faster than f2.

Philip.

Depends for what purpose. In low light it can only be the Summilux for me. Same when i need the sharper results but for travels or when size matters i tend to bring the Summicron v4 or v5 preferably. Same for portraits where both v4 and v5 are more forgiving than the Summilux asph. Now i'm fortunate enough to own a Summicron apo too but curiously enough it is not my favorite 50. Too perfect perhaps i don't know. I prefer character lenses generally and in good light my favorite remains the Elmar-M 50/2.8. Too many lenses you think? I like drinking different wines too . When size matters (50/2 v5, 50/2 apo, 50/1.4 asph):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited April 5, 2022 by lct

[M2Pete]

5 hours ago, pippy said:

Pesonally I didn't mention the Summicron v4 / v5 previously because the OP specifically asked about lenses faster than f2

You are correct.
One of my first lenses for my M2 was  VC 50mm f/1.5 ltm Nokton asph. I really loved the fact I could shoot it pretty much in any light. My current high-end 50 (if you can call it that) is an Elmar-M. It’s a fun, great little lens but come dusk it suffers. I’ve looked at the Cron and seriously considered it, but the extra stop of the Lux and a je ne sais quai of the photos made with the Lux has me thinking this is what I want. I don’t worry about a bit of finder blockage and ergonomically a little weight is ok. Honestly I feel maybe I should rent one and perhaps wasted everyone’s time. 
 

Sorry if that’s the case.  😶

Edited April 6, 2022 by M2Pete

[pippy]

8 hours ago, lct said:

Depends for what purpose. In low light it can only be the Summilux for me. Same when i need the sharper results but for travels or when size matters i tend to bring the Summicron v4 or v5 preferably. Same for portraits where both v4 and v5 are more forgiving than the Summilux asph. Now i'm fortunate enough to own a Summicron apo too but curiously enough it is not my favorite 50. Too perfect perhaps i don't know. I prefer character lenses generally and in good light my favorite remains the Elmar-M 50/2.8. Too many lenses you think? I like drinking different wines too ...

Too many 50s? No such thing in my book!......

I agree completely with every part of your rationale. As it happens I have a number of different Leica 50s myself (as well as others from other manufacturers) and, like yourself, will choose whichever lens is (IMO) the 'correct' one for my present needs on an as-and-when basis. The final choice will always be a subjective one athough based on objective principles.

Philip.

[pippy]

5 hours ago, M2Pete said:

...One of my first lenses for my M2 was  VC 50mm f/1.5 ltm Nokton asph. I really loved the fact I could shoot it pretty much in any light. My current high-end 50...is an Elmar-M. It’s a fun, great little lens but come dusk it suffers. I’ve looked at the Cron and seriously considered it, but the extra stop of the Lux and a je ne sais quai of the photos made with the Lux has me thinking this is what I want. I don’t worry about a bit of finder blockage and ergonomically a little weight is ok. Honestly I feel maybe I should rent one and perhaps wasted everyone’s time......Sorry if that’s the case.  😶

You certainly haven't wasted everyone's time, Pete, so absolutely no need to apologise. I'm sure that we've all been more than happy to share our individual thoughts with you and also hope that you have found some value from our comments based on our varying experiences and preferences. Sometimes insights gained from such exchanges can be very helpful in any decision-making process.

From what you have written both in the OP and in the passage quoted above I'm still pretty convinced that the Summilux will be the right lens for your own circumstances; it does everything you seem to need and as the size/blockage/weight are not an issue then I can see no down-side whatsoever to choosing such a lens.

Philip.

[cboy]

OP you only live once mate. So live it up and get what you truly want. It's obvious from the beginning the lux is what you want. Mind you here in Australia the light is bright/extreme so you might want an ND or polariser if you want to use lux wide open on a sunny day.

All the best

[albertospa]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, lct said:

In generale preferisco gli obiettivi per i caratteri e in buona luce il mio preferito rimane l'Elmar-M 50/2.8. 

 

I believe you are referring to the Elmar 50 2.8 last type.
I would have found a good chance of the Elmar 50 2.8 from 1971, what do you think? I would like to combine it with the Summilux 50 pre aspheric, which I own and love very much.

[lct]

2 hours ago, albertospa said:

I believe you are referring to the Elmar 50 2.8 last type.
I would have found a good chance of the Elmar 50 2.8 from 1971, what do you think? I would like to combine it with the Summilux 50 pre aspheric, which I own and love very much.

The Elmar "non-M" 50/2.8 (11112) is a very good lens too but with less contrast and more flare than the Elmar-M 50/2.8. Should match well the Summilux 50/1.4 v1 (11014) i guess but i have no experience with it. Summilux 50/1.4 v2 (11114) and v3 (11868) are more contrasty with less flare but both "non-M" 50/2.8 and 50/1.4 v2 did stand in the Leitz catalog in 1973 so Leitz considered their specs compatible then.

[RexGig0]

Yes, a ‘Cron, with the current optical formula, is a wonderful do-almost-everything lens, but, if you have an Elmar-M 50mm, it makes sense to add the Summilux, as they are different Fifties, for different environments/purposes. Then, of course, one can add the ‘Cron, later. 😉 (Actually, I now have all three, Summilux, non-APO Summicron, and Elmar-M, myself. Each get its opportunities. All were acquired pre-owned, at considerably less than manufacturer-recommended new lens pricing.)

Fifties can be addicting!

Edited April 6, 2022 by RexGig0

[laowai_]

On 4/3/2022 at 2:38 PM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Let’s be honest here: the “apo” name is just an absolute marketing gimmick. For a lens to be truly APO, it is NOT supposed to show any CA at all. But knowing this, Leica then said that its lenses are somewhat APO corrected.

Well, if you ask me: absolutely all lenses are somewhat apo corrected, therefore ALL lenses are somewhat apo.

Not quite…

achromatic design was a breakthrough in lens design. In the 1750’s researchers figures out they you can use two different types of glass (crown and flint glass) to reduce chromatic aberrations. 

Apochromatic design goes a step further using three types of glass. 

BTW, a step up form apochrimaric is superachromatic.

In praxis, not all Apochromatic lenses are better than all achromatic lenses. 
 

You cannot change people’s minds but you can enhance the importance of features. That’s what marketing professionals do. Manufacturers like to show lens cross sections and highlight the various types of glass they use. Marketed try to translate things that get optical engineers excited into something meaningful for us regular folks.

 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Which reminds me the 90APO: the sharpness of an asph but not the apo performance of an apo lens. 

[lct]

All apo lenses are not free from color fringing. Even my Summicron 50/2 apo can show some. The Summicron 90/2 apo is my second best 90/2 from this viewpoint behind the Summicron 90/2 v2 but the latter is significantly more bulky.

[IkarusJohn]

I always thought APO was an abbreviation for apochromatic, which is a critical concept for telephoto lenses - colour separation was always a problem.  My 180/2.8 Elmarit-R is “APO”.

I have no doubt that my 75 Summilux-M is apochromatically corrected, and my 50 Summilux ASPH and 50 Noctilux are apparently APO lenses, but not marketed as such.  The APO Summicron SL lenses, and the APO 50 & 35 M Summicrons do seem to use APO as hallmarks of excellence, rather than just references to apochromatic correction.  Doesn’t really bother me - the two I have, the APO 50 Summicron-M and APO 180 Elmarit-R are both excellent lenses.

[M2Pete]

On 4/6/2022 at 2:09 AM, pippy said:

From what you have written both in the OP and in the passage quoted above I'm still pretty convinced that the Summilux will be the right lens for your own circumstances; it does everything you seem to need and as the size/blockage/weight are not an issue then I can see no down-side whatsoever to choosing such a lens.

 

It has been a whirlwind of several days of trading as I have never experienced before. First I bought the Elmar-M 50 from a friend, and liked what I was getting in my photos, I love it's quirky operation, but he had sellers remorse and asked if I would sell it back and I did. He referred me to a friend of his in town that was looking to sell his Summarit 50mm.

I met with his friend and he lent it to me and again I liked what I was seeing so I was ready to buy it when he mentioned he had 2 Summicron 50's V4 lenses, one being sent to him by his father that was thinning his kit, and he'd rather have the Summarit and sell one of the Crons. He was willing to do so at the same price as the Summarit (!) and gave me his version to see if I liked it - needless to say I really loved the IQ. Did some research and the fact that I was getting a stop over the Elmar-M and 1/2 stop over the Summarit satisfied me I was likely to get the better low light coverage that bugged me about the Elmar-M originally. I pick it up next Wednesday!

I still want the Lux but at this point, budget and all other thing concerned that lens is still a want. I have a f/2 lens to see if I really need a f/1.4. I'm moving to Brisbane, QLD Australia in June and I cannot honestly imagine needing a f/1.4 lens for light. Maybe for Christmas.

So I'll happily snap away with a Summicron V4 until then.

Thank you for all of the input I've received, I really do appreciate it. 🙂

 

[jaapv]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:42 PM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

If a lens shows CA in any measure, it is NOT APO. How can it be? LOL!

Coming back to an old post, but with a timeless answer:
A lens is apochromatically corrected when it  has three points in the spectrum( R,G and B ) where the lightrays converge in the plane of focus. The definition says nothing outside these three wavelenghts, so any apochromatically corrected lens can (and most often will) show some chromatic aberration. Having said that, Leica uses four wavelengths, but still the caveat applies.
In the end, it is fairly irrelevant, as the phenomenon can be easily be eliminated in postprocessing.

[jaapv]

On 4/6/2022 at 11:52 AM, albertospa said:

I believe you are referring to the Elmar 50 2.8 last type.
I would have found a good chance of the Elmar 50 2.8 from 1971, what do you think? I would like to combine it with the Summilux 50 pre aspheric, which I own and love very much.

The new type is significantly improved over the older variants.

[pippy]

43 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

...the 50f2 APO Lanthar is definitely the best 50 for Leica right now...

That's merely one opinion. There are many other snappers here who hold a very different view and, as always, much depends on one's definition of the word 'best'; in some respects it's a terrible option.

Philip.

Edited April 16, 2022 by pippy

[lct]

Hehe "definitely the best" is the kind of statement we love on the LUF... especially when "da best" is not a Leica .

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Reddy]

let me add something more, 50mm Summilux is the happy medium, if you want the feels that would be the 50mm DR and Rigid, I like how they feel on my fingers and the mood when comparing to the Summilux. But if you are main B&W shooter then the 50mm radioactive is your best choice, look classic on the M too.

[Gelatino]

.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Gelatino