Light leaks? M2-r

[jakontil]

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Dear all,

Is this a light leak? I shot only few rolls through my newly acquired M2, in between the first few exposures, this happened but only in one exposures out of 36, and 2 rolls out of probably 6 so not very consistent  

any suggestions where i should look into or double tape any part of the camera? 😂🤣 

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[madNbad]

Tape the bottom of the door and see if that helps. You may be putting just enough pressure on it to cause it to flex Let us know what you find out.

[mike3996]

To me it doesn't look like a traditional light leak.

If you mean the dark band at the top. I get that with a digital M when shooting against the sun sometimes.

The blue streak is another thing, this I don't know about.

Edited March 30, 2022 by mike3996

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, madNbad said:

Tape the bottom of the door and see if that helps. You may be putting just enough pressure on it to cause it to flex Let us know what you find out.

Thanks! Will try it soon

23 minutes ago, mike3996 said:

To me it doesn't look like a traditional light leak.

If you mean the dark band at the top. I get that with a digital M when shooting against the sun sometimes.

The blue streak is another thing, this I don't know about.

the leaks is below the dark band at the top, got exactly 2 rolls of different rolls at the exact spot so i suspected it

the blue streaks due to my stand dev i believe, very careless of me

[otto.f]

Do you know if it’s at a specific shutter time? Have you inspected the shutter curtain, at the bottom, whether the two curtains run smooth and the iron hems don’t stick at eachother?

Edited March 30, 2022 by otto.f

[250swb]

2 hours ago, jakontil said:

 

the leaks is below the dark band at the top, got exactly 2 rolls of different rolls at the exact spot so i suspected it

 

I think the shutter light seal needs replacing. You are right, the leak isn't the dark band at the top, that is the normal negative density, and as the shutter goes side to side in an M camera it's unlikely to be a slow shutter curtain. Try to remember if there was a gap between shots and if it occurred on the frame that had been in the gate longer than other exposures.

Edited March 30, 2022 by 250swb

[jerzy]

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whenever suspecting light leak it is always helpful to post the scan including perforation and space between the frames. This helps to determine of the leak comes from front or back. In  this particular case i think too that it could be light seal, so light coming from the front

Edited March 30, 2022 by jerzy

[davidmknoble]

@jakontil, you can also try an experiment (if you roll your own film, try a 12 exposure roll),  Put a lens on, wide open.  Let it sit with the lens cap off in bright outdoor light for awhile.  Then, put the lens cap on, shoot at 1/1000 sec, wind the film and repeat.

Then, put the body cap on and do the same thing (looking for light leak from the door.

That effectively allows a light leak to expose the film, but then not actually take a photograph.  If the problem appears on every frame, you know exactly where it is coming from.  

I agree I have had curtain issues with older cameras and the light issue is vertical because of the shutter slit.  You do not have that problem I think.  Also inspect the shutter curtains (using the B speed) to see if they are in good shape.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by davidmknoble
Added more.

[jakontil]

3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

@jakontil, you can also try an experiment (if you roll your own film, try a 12 exposure roll),  Put a lens on, wide open.  Let it sit with the lens cap off in bright outdoor light for awhile.  Then, put the lens cap on, shoot at 1/1000 sec, wind the film and repeat.

Then, put the body cap on and do the same thing (looking for light leak from the door.

That effectively allows a light leak to expose the film, but then not actually take a photograph.  If the problem appears on every frame, you know exactly where it is coming from.  

I agree I have had curtain issues with older cameras and the light issue is vertical because of the shutter slit.  You do not have that problem I think.  Also inspect the shutter curtains (using the B speed) to see if they are in good shape.

 

Hi david,

 

thanks for the insights, i have run a couple of rolls without exhibiting the symptoms 

mind you, the second frame that suffer from this was taken indoor, but that happened on another roll from the one shown above

last roll i shot was on the sunniest sunday and i didnt encounter such behaviour 

i have tried the B mode to see if anything strange with the curtains and i failed to notice anything extraordinary and hAve cleaned the chambers too as well as the curtain rails.. the baffled seem intact, and the pelt too.. i’d run another roll this week and see how it goes… 

[davidmknoble]

10 hours ago, jakontil said:

Hi david,

 

thanks for the insights, i have run a couple of rolls without exhibiting the symptoms 

mind you, the second frame that suffer from this was taken indoor, but that happened on another roll from the one shown above

last roll i shot was on the sunniest sunday and i didnt encounter such behaviour 

i have tried the B mode to see if anything strange with the curtains and i failed to notice anything extraordinary and hAve cleaned the chambers too as well as the curtain rails.. the baffled seem intact, and the pelt too.. i’d run another roll this week and see how it goes… 

@jakontil, Then I think you have ruled out a light leak in the body. You may want to study the l negatives again and see if it is lens flare.  Depending on the lens, whether a hood is on, and the light from (inside) lamps or windows, or off mirrors or tv’s, or (outside) sun, reflections, some lenses tend to flare more than others.  Older lenses are not coated as well.  

While the image you posted has a spot below the top, it could be from something blocking light.   Not a guarantee, but if your camera does not leak, the lens has to be part of the problem?  

 

[otto.f]

4 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

Then I think you have ruled out a light leak in the body.

Not if it occurs now and then and in that case a curtain hickup is still possible. I cannot see the form of the overexposure as caused by flare. 

[davidmknoble]

5 hours ago, otto.f said:

Not if it occurs now and then and in that case a curtain hickup is still possible. I cannot see the form of the overexposure as caused by flare. 

@otto.f, maybe not. But look at the photo at the top.  Based on the shadows, the light is in front of you and to the right.  there is a building with a roof.  It is very possible that the light caused some flare on the upper left side of the frame.  The patch on the frame is not all the way across.  I am not suggesting it is flare in the sense of shooting straight at the sun, but as an example, event the current Leica M Summilux 35 1.4 FLE will flare wide open and soften parts of the frame.  It’s happened to me.

@jakontil, if you feel so inclined, I’d love to see a few other frames where this happened to you.  It may help figure this out (or may not). Also, did you say what lens(s) you were using?

[trisberg]

I think @250swb is spot on, "I think the shutter light seal needs replacing."  I have an M4-2 that shows the same issue and I'm about to send it to DAG for service. AFAICT the light gets in from the lens and the light seals around the shutter aren't light tight so you get this extra exposure on the negative. If you always keep a lens cap on then you would probably see less of this problem.

-Thomas

[jakontil]

21 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

@otto.f, maybe not. But look at the photo at the top.  Based on the shadows, the light is in front of you and to the right.  there is a building with a roof.  It is very possible that the light caused some flare on the upper left side of the frame.  The patch on the frame is not all the way across.  I am not suggesting it is flare in the sense of shooting straight at the sun, but as an example, event the current Leica M Summilux 35 1.4 FLE will flare wide open and soften parts of the frame.  It’s happened to me.

@jakontil, if you feel so inclined, I’d love to see a few other frames where this happened to you.  It may help figure this out (or may not). Also, did you say what lens(s) you were using?

Hi david, i could rule out the flare issues, since it happened indoor though the light came from a mild window lights, but i doubt it will give flares, having said that i have only encountered a couple of frames, keep finger crosses

i would post some more frames if it happen again, the last roll was alright, no problem, thanks for the head ups 

5 hours ago, trisberg said:

I think @250swb is spot on, "I think the shutter light seal needs replacing."  I have an M4-2 that shows the same issue and I'm about to send it to DAG for service. AFAICT the light gets in from the lens and the light seals around the shutter aren't light tight so you get this extra exposure on the negative. If you always keep a lens cap on then you would probably see less of this problem.

-Thomas

hi thomas, i never use a lens cap, i have observed the light seals around the shutter was in good conditions but i’d pay extra attention since there were dusts after blowing with duster

i’d update with frames soon, tomorrow gonna get some photos

[jakontil]

Hi,

here’s another update, shot this yesterday and one of the frame exhibits such behaviour

i live in a country where doing CLA is not very likely 😂, mind you after shooting a couple rolls without such leaks, i thought i give it another go of rolls yesterday and after developing it, i could notice while scanning using my dslr

 

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[jakontil]

1 hour ago, jakontil said:

Hi,

here’s another update, shot this yesterday and one of the frame exhibits such behaviour

i live in a country where doing CLA is not very likely 😂, mind you after shooting a couple rolls without such leaks, i thought i give it another go of rolls yesterday and after developing it, i could notice while scanning using my dslr

 

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Apology , here’s the correct perspective after scan

 

 

[davidmknoble]

@jakontil, that really stinks.  Is it still happening only sometimes?  Is it happening every X frames consistently?  Wondering if you can find a pattern to help figure it out (same shutter speed?). 

In the end if a CLA is unlikely, you might be better off selling this body and trying to obtain another? 

 

[jakontil]

5 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

@jakontil, that really stinks.  Is it still happening only sometimes?  Is it happening every X frames consistently?  Wondering if you can find a pattern to help figure it out (same shutter speed?). 

In the end if a CLA is unlikely, you might be better off selling this body and trying to obtain another? 

 

hi david, thanks for your concern, right now it is still happening only sometimes but unpredictable, the previous few rolls were fine without exhibiting this problem, but the last roll probably i could see 2 frames consequently while the other was less obvious but when zoomed in could see it was there

i havent thought of selling this, love this body so much i prefer it over my mp lol

still havent figured out consistent pattern yet

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[analogM]

From the KS-15(4) repair training manual:

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[jakontil]

1 hour ago, analogM said:

From the KS-15(4) repair training manual:

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Cheers mate! Would look closely into it