Dose anyone wanted Perspective Control in Leica M11 on Leica M11?

[Leica Land]

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I will buy a M11 only if the perspective control function is included. 

Anyone else feel the same? 

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6 minutes ago, Leica Land said:

I will buy a M11 only if the perspective control function is included.

In that case, my prediction is that you will not buy a Leica M11.

[Leica Land]

Only if they update the firmware like the M10-P or M10R

[Gelatino]

The horizontal level is included on the M11.  Some said the perspective control should be in a coming up- grade of the M11 FW.

Personnally I think it will be only on M11-P, but I would be happy to be wrong.

[elmars]

Perspective control will come in March or April.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Yes, I'd like it. It'd be more useful on the SL2 though......

Gordon

[Photoworks]

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The firmware update will have the Prospective control.

I didn't find it do useful on the M10-R as it needs live view active. Perhaps the M11 will have some improvements on it since the Live view works better

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

The firmware update will have the Prospective control.

I didn't find it do useful on the M10-R as it needs live view active. Perhaps the M11 will have some improvements on it since the Live view works better

You need LV only if you want to see the cropping lines. The angle information is always stored  in the DNG and can be used, e.g., only for automatic leveling.

With experience, you may be able to estimate the perspective cropping while using the rangefinder.

[jaapv]

I find this a bit of a gimmick at best or a lazy way out at worst.

One can easily see the perspective in the viewfinder, and subsequent postprocessing allows far more control than any in-camera automation ever will, ranging from straightening/cropping (content aware), through the  horizontal, vertical perspective sliders and the WA distortion slider in PS -Lens Correction -> Custom-, to Puppet Warp.

[LBJ2]

8 hours ago, Leica Land said:

I will buy a M11 only if the perspective control function is included. 

Anyone else feel the same? 

For me a very useful walk-around feature. I have been impressed more than a few times using this feature in the M10-R and I do value this feature in-camera. Hope to see it in the M11 one day soon too. The below illustration closely matches my own experience with this feature with some very good before and after examples. However one click in Lightroom produces similar results so for me no big deal if I have to wait for an M11 firmware update. In the meantime, I couldn't be a happier M11 early adopter. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/hands-review/hands-leicas-new-perspective-control-function-m10-cameras

[derleicaman]

I find Perspective Control to be useful when I am traveling and doing run and gun architectural pictures. It does help in composition. I also use live view for this before the PC was available. I did a lot of this type of photography on our Med Cruise in 2018. I used the Viso 020 the first day, lost the case, and just went with Live View.

When I was in Wetzlar in November, I was using Perspective Control in Braunfels and got some very strange results with it. Not sure what was happening. It made the tower of the castle very distorted. I also found that PC did the same thing with table top pictures of lenses. I thought it would help there, but instead, made the lenses look very short and squat. Weird!

[LBJ2]

2 minutes ago, derleicaman said:

I find Perspective Control to be useful when I am traveling and doing run and gun architectural pictures. It does help in composition. I also use live view for this before the PC was available. I did a lot of this type of photography on our Med Cruise in 2018. I used the Viso 020 the first day, lost the case, and just went with Live View.

When I was in Wetzlar in November, I was using Perspective Control in Braunfels and got some very strange results with it. Not sure what was happening. It made the tower of the castle very distorted. I also found that PC did the same thing with table top pictures of lenses. I thought it would help there, but instead, made the lenses look very short and squat. Weird!

I have run into a few wonky situations too both with the in-camera feature and with the same feature when applied in Lightroom. I am sure my lens, the angle with which I held the camera relative to the angle/size of the subject and maybe a few other settings presents a total scenario the software doesn't know how to handle. I haven't been able to pin it down yet. But for the most part I've had pretty good results. But I do tend to use it for architecture or compositions that include architecture.

 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

I find this a bit of a gimmick at best or a lazy way out at worst.

One can easily see the perspective in the viewfinder, and subsequent postprocessing allows far more control than any in-camera automation ever will, ranging from straightening/cropping (content aware), through the  horizontal, vertical perspective sliders and the WA distortion slider in PS -Lens Correction -> Custom-, to Puppet Warp.

I have regularly found that leveling and perspective correction works better with the data provided in the DNG than when doing it manually. Note that content aware cropping and Puppet Wrap are not available in Lightroom. There are situation where those PS tools are necessary, but often, ACR’s simple perspective correction and leveling is good enough.

[Jeff S]

22 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

For me a very useful walk-around feature. I have been impressed more than a few times using this feature in the M10-R and I do value this feature in-camera. Hope to see it in the M11 one day soon too. The below illustration closely matches my own experience with this feature with some very good before and after examples. However one click in Lightroom produces similar results so for me no big deal if I have to wait for an M11 firmware update. In the meantime, I couldn't be a happier M11 early adopter. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/hands-review/hands-leicas-new-perspective-control-function-m10-cameras

The linked article indicates that changes in camera are made to JPEG only, not DNG, which must be corrected in PP anyway.  
 

Jeff

[SrMi]

10 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The linked article indicates that changes in camera are made to JPEG only, not DNG, which must be corrected in PP anyway.  
 

Jeff

Yes, the corrections are applied permanently to JPGs only. They are optional for DNGs and can be enabled by the press of a button in Lightroom or ACR. With DNGs, the corrections can be tuned manually or applied only partially.

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Whereas the JPG correction is instant, the information is also embedded in the DNG data and can be promptly recalled (one click operation) in Camera Raw by clicking the last UPRIGHT icon in GEOMETRY menu (see pic) - providing that "perspective control" is switched ON during the capture in camera.

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You do not need to turn Perspective Control On. The angle data is always written into DNG and available in Adobe software.

[Guest]

Even if you correct the perspectives later in an image editing program, it is very helpful to see already when taking a photo, how much space you have to leave around the subject, so that it is completely preserved during the subsequent perspective correction.
That's why an M11 without perspective correction is out of the question for me.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

You need LV only if you want to see the cropping lines. The angle information is always stored  in the DNG and can be used, e.g., only for automatic leveling.

With experience, you may be able to estimate the perspective cropping while using the rangefinder.

I wonder if you have been using it?

In order to apply perspective control on the DMG and a JPEG you need to be in live view mode, when you load the DMG into Lightroom the correction will load automatically. Jpg are already rendered that way.
If you only seeing through the rangefinder you don’t get any connect prospective in the DMG (Metadata about prospective-) but you can still go room geometric  and apply the setting, and Lightroom will do the work of calculating. 

The same is for taking off the setting in lightroom  

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[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I wonder if you have been using it?

In order to apply perspective control on the DMG and a JPEG you need to be in live view mode, when you load the DMG into Lightroom the correction will load automatically. Jpg are already rendered that way.
If you only seeing through the rangefinder you don’t get any connect prospective in the DMG (Metadata about prospective-) but you can still go room geometric  and apply the setting, and Lightroom will do the work of calculating. 

The same is for taking off the setting in lightroom  

Yes, I have been using it. My memory is good but short. Therefore I (almost) always test before posting about something.

I have just tested it again, and the angle information is indeed stored in the DNG (DMG is an Apple disk image) even if the perspective correction is off. The corrections based on the information provided by Leica can be applied on-demand. You can see the angles stored in the DNG using the dng_validate tool.
The embedded JPG preview will be corrected and cropped if you have turned on the perspective correction. However, for the corrections to be applied automatically on the DNG, you must set Lightroom's Preferences>Presets>Raw Defaults to Camera Setting. I have set it to Adobe Default as I prefer to enable it when needed. Even if the corrections provided by the camera are applied automatically, you can still edit and/or remove them.

Edited March 18, 2022 by SrMi

[jaapv]

That is why I said you judge it in the optical  viewfinder and you can use content aware crop to expand a bit should you get it wrong. Nor can the camera correct the horizontal perspective. I don’t use Lightroom. Never liked it BTW do you remember the hullabaloo when Leica dared to use that in-camera digital correction on the Q ? The sky had fallen…