Dose anyone wanted Perspective Control in Leica M11 on Leica M11?

[Photoworks]

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2 hours ago, SrMi said:

You need LV only if you want to see the cropping lines. The angle information is always stored  in the DNG and can be used, e.g., only for automatic leveling.

With experience, you may be able to estimate the perspective cropping while using the rangefinder.

I wonder if you have been using it?

In order to apply perspective control on the DMG and a JPEG you need to be in live view mode, when you load the DMG into Lightroom the correction will load automatically. Jpg are already rendered that way.
If you only seeing through the rangefinder you don’t get any connect prospective in the DMG (Metadata about prospective-) but you can still go room geometric  and apply the setting, and Lightroom will do the work of calculating. 

The same is for taking off the setting in lightroom  

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I wonder if you have been using it?

In order to apply perspective control on the DMG and a JPEG you need to be in live view mode, when you load the DMG into Lightroom the correction will load automatically. Jpg are already rendered that way.
If you only seeing through the rangefinder you don’t get any connect prospective in the DMG (Metadata about prospective-) but you can still go room geometric  and apply the setting, and Lightroom will do the work of calculating. 

The same is for taking off the setting in lightroom  

Yes, I have been using it. My memory is good but short. Therefore I (almost) always test before posting about something.

I have just tested it again, and the angle information is indeed stored in the DNG (DMG is an Apple disk image) even if the perspective correction is off. The corrections based on the information provided by Leica can be applied on-demand. You can see the angles stored in the DNG using the dng_validate tool.
The embedded JPG preview will be corrected and cropped if you have turned on the perspective correction. However, for the corrections to be applied automatically on the DNG, you must set Lightroom's Preferences>Presets>Raw Defaults to Camera Setting. I have set it to Adobe Default as I prefer to enable it when needed. Even if the corrections provided by the camera are applied automatically, you can still edit and/or remove them.

Edited March 18, 2022 by SrMi

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[jaapv]

That is why I said you judge it in the optical  viewfinder and you can use content aware crop to expand a bit should you get it wrong. Nor can the camera correct the horizontal perspective. I don’t use Lightroom. Never liked it BTW do you remember the hullabaloo when Leica dared to use that in-camera digital correction on the Q ? The sky had fallen… 

[jaapv]

Question: Does the function crop the image or does it “stretch” the pixels by interpolation? 

[SrMi]

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Question: Does the function crop the image or does it “stretch” the pixels by interpolation? 

Go to ACR>Geometry and play with the Guided option (on the right). That is how automatic perspective correction is applied.

[SrMi]

48 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That is why I said you judge it in the optical  viewfinder and you can use content aware crop to expand a bit should you get it wrong. Nor can the camera correct the horizontal perspective. I don’t use Lightroom. Never liked it BTW do you remember the hullabaloo when Leica dared to use that in-camera digital correction on the Q ? The sky had fallen… 

To appreciate Perspective Correction, I feel one must use it for a while. I was skeptical at first when beta-testing it.

Are you talking about Q's SDC? That is something very different.

[jaapv]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Go to ACR>Geometry and play with the Guided option (on the right). That is how automatic perspective correction is applied.

That is not what I asked. 

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Question: Does the function crop the image or does it “stretch” the pixels by interpolation? 

It does neither. Except if you are shooting a jpeg. In which case it crops the image. 

[SrMi]

29 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That is not what I asked. 

DNG is not modified when perspective correction is turned on, except for changed xml data.

[Kwesi]

In-camera perspective control is such a useful feature because it allows you to compose in real time with a corrected upright perspective when shooting architecture. Especially when working in the 28-50 range. I loved it on the 10-P and I can’t wait to get it back on the M11.

[jaapv]

Yes, but my question is: when it is applied does it compress the image on the side that must be shrunk, making a crop and thus loss of framing necessary or does it interpolate the side that must be expanded, causing resolution loss ? 

[M11 for me]

and is it true as stated above that when shooting DNG it does nothing?

[Leica Land]

Most M if not all M lens are fixed focal. 

The PC help me in composing and giving me allowance so that I will not crop out important details. 

It is a tool which is useful for me

[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, M11 for me said:

and is it true as stated above that when shooting DNG it does nothing?

When shooting DNG it does nothing visually, it just writes the correction data in the file so when you open the DNG in Camera Raw you can fix it using this very same embedded data with one click - as I illustrated in post #17.

[Kwesi]

Thanks for explaining Al,

If I recall correctly, Lightroom is able to apply the corrections automatically to the DNG during import.

[Tailwagger]

I  use(d) PC all the time and AFAIK so does everyone else who has an M10-R and shoots DNG.  I have PC disabled as I find the guidelines distracting, but often I rely on it or at least check the result in LR as the PC data is stored independent of the image and is omnipresent regardless of whether it's enabled or not.  What I can't recall offhand is whether or not LV has to be enabled for the numbers to be stored... I think not, but I can't be definitive without going back and testing. The DNG transforms are, as noted above, only applied when commanded to do so in LR or CR.  In other words, if you have an M10-R, assuming the appropriate firmware level, you should be able to go into LR, click the guided perspective icon and get the PC version of the shot regardless of whether or not you enabled it in camera.

As for what's going on, it's not entirely clear, but whatever it is, for DNGs its externally performed by Adobe so whatever they do to implement PC in LR/CR, is likely what happens here as well. If I had to guess, and I do, all Leica PC does is pass along and automatically plug in the numbers that one would have generated by hand using LR's guided PC.  Note, that both use the same control button to initiate the transform.  So to answer you @jaapvwhatever Adobe does to alter the perspective is how M files are transformed via PC, AFAICT. 

It's obviously not magic and certainly doesn't save the day every time. But if one takes proper care, it can be quite useful. As for loss of fidelity, I find it undetectable in most circumstances.  Regardless Jaap, as we've all be told a million times around here, no one needs 40, let alone 60 Mpx, so even if a few pixies are dumped on the cutting room floor why all of a sudden would throwing a few of them away be a problem? 🤣

[jaapv]

Not really, but given the magic qualities attributed to pixel count, it might be of interest to some, particularly the group who demand to be provided with the distorted part of the Q2 image. Correcting perspective in Postprocessing will have the same effects. 

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Not really, but given the magic qualities attributed to pixel count, it might be of interest to some, particularly the group who demand to be provided with the distorted part of the Q2 image. Correcting perspective in Postprocessing will have the same effects. 

Whether you distort the parts manually or with the help of the data provided by the camera should not make any difference in image quality.

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Postprocessing will have the same effects.

indeed

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[jaapv]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Whether you distort the parts manually or with the help of the data provided by the camera should not make any difference in image quality.