Build quality of New M-A

[Ouroboros]

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On 3/18/2022 at 10:09 AM, Ouroboros said:

In January this year, I gave my eldest son some money to buy a new M-A.  
Within a week he had to return the camera for a new replacement because his films were fogged.
The cause was a hole at the top of the film cassette chamber that leaked light from the viewfinder.

Within a week of receiving the replacement camera and with his first roll of film, he had to return it for a new replacement because the film wind-on action felt rough and the shutter wasn’t working correctly. 
The cause was a detached shutter blind.

It is now two months since he bought the first M-A and he is now on his third camera body which, so far, seems to be working properly. 
All three cameras were dated between 1&3 weeks on the sealed outer boxes before he received them. 
 

I’ve attached images of the issues with the first two M-A bodies:

 

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Wrt to the above, 7 months on, my son's 3rd new M-A is still intact and working fine, but I've no doubt that, from this and other people's experiences reported on this forum, Leica have had/do have inexcusable qc issues. 

 

[plaidshirts]

On 3/19/2022 at 2:06 PM, ktmrider2 said:

Get a classic M2, M3, or M4.  The guts of an MA are probably interchangeable (according to a long time Leica dealer I was talking to last week).  Any problems the older Leicas had would be taken care of by now.  Use the money you saved to travel or buy film.

Agreed. You could probably buy all 3 for the price of a new MA.

[logan2z]

Just now, plaidshirts said:

Agreed. You could probably buy all 3 for the price of a new MA.

I've got an M-A, along with an M4 and an M2.  While the older, classic Leicas are terrific, there is something to be said about getting a brand new, pristine camera with which you can make your own history.  Having a warranty is nice as well in the event that something goes wrong.

I guess I've been fortunate that the M-A I bought in 2017 has been faultless.  Maybe QC has slipped a bit since then.  Hopefully Leica can right the ship now that it has more seriously dedicated itself to film photography with the new M6.

[plaidshirts]

4 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I've got an M-A, along with an M4 and an M2.  While the older, classic Leicas are terrific, there is something to be said about getting a brand new, pristine camera with which you can make your own history.  Having a warranty is nice as well in the event that something goes wrong.

I guess I've been fortunate that the M-A I bought in 2017 has been faultless.  Maybe QC has slipped a bit since then.  Hopefully Leica can right the ship now that it has more seriously dedicated itself to film photography with the new M6.

I have a new MP for the same reason and the black paint.

It’s beautiful to behold but doesn’t feel as smooth as my M2-M4. The brass gear does make a difference. Oh and the 50-60 years of use too. 

[malligator]

18 hours ago, Reactivestills said:

I bought 2 x M-A’s brand new and they both arrived with large amounts of dust in the viewfinders. Sent them back for a swap and waited 2 months and finally I get sent a replacement that was just as bad. 

I asked for expedited delivery and they said they can’t offer express shipping. I was told they recalled many of the bodies on account of my issue to make sure they could rectify the issue. I was promised the replacement would be personally checked by the technicians before being shipped and it wasn’t. 

I contacted Leica Berlin and they were very helpful as they were only sales and one of the team said “Oh we are having a lot of trouble with the analogue bodies lately” so that basically tells me the technicians aren’t suitable for the job.

Refunded €16k worth of an order and they didn’t even respond to my 4-5 emails that I sent to head office complaining of the issue when I asked for someone to reach out me.

Leica easily has the worst service and qc on the whole spectrum of camera manufacturers that I’ve dealt with in 20yrs. I read horror stories and still wanted to have part of the legacy as I have used friends M’s and they are built before Kaufman. Took over and are pristine with no issues. 
The Japanese manufacturers wouldn’t have let that happen. I had devices back in my hands in 2 weeks or less when using Nikon, Canon, Fujifilm professionally and their services.Sometimes even with apology letters. 

I heard the horror stories of the service times and the brutal customer service and still after 15yrs of waiting finally was going to buy 2 analogue bodies to keep and service over time for the long term. And they couldn’t even get them into my hands new without flaws from the get go. Absolutely ridiculous at the prices and their double sign offs in the box... And people spending 8.5k on digital M’s and having issues and having to wait for months to have it rectified - Completely unacceptable.

I commented on another post on Discuss. A guy sent his 11k noctilux that was 3 months old due to sticking aperture blades… it came back with oil all over the blades and ruined… Leica denied it. 

I thought you left.

[logan2z]

1 minute ago, plaidshirts said:

I have a new MP for the same reason and the black paint.

It’s beautiful to behold but doesn’t feel as smooth as my M2-M4. The brass gear does make a difference. Oh and the 50-60 years of use too. 

That's interesting, my M-A feels a little smoother to me than my M4 and the M4 has had a recent CLA.  They both feel great, to be honest, but the M-A just feels a tad smoother.  I can't compare it to my M2 at the moment since it's still sitting at Wetzlar being repaired 😔

[plaidshirts]

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1 minute ago, logan2z said:

That's interesting, my M-A feels a little smoother to me than my M4 and the M4 has had a recent CLA.  They both feel great, to be honest, but the M-A just feels a tad smoother.  I can't compare it to my M2 at the moment since it's still sitting at Wetzlar being repaired 😔

I’ve read about your M2 - I hope they get it sorted out quickly and correctly.

As for how the advance feels, I find that interesting too, since the difference to me is very clear. M2-M4 feel similarly very smooth and the shutter releases are much lighter compared to the MP. I had attributed that to difference in component material and age but maybe it’s all in my head. 

[hdmesa]

19 hours ago, Reactivestills said:

...[dust complaint]... The Japanese manufacturers wouldn’t have let that happen...

Happens even with new Japanese-made lenses (ex, Fujifilm GF). That said, I think Fujifilm assembly managers would cringe at the lack of concern over dust at Leica. In some of Leica's videos, it shows people assembling cameras and lenses without hairnets, not wearing dust-protective cover garments, and seemingly not in "clean rooms", either.

Edited October 30, 2022 by hdmesa

[Huss]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Happens even with new Japanese-made lenses (ex, Fujifilm GF). That said, I think Fujifilm assembly managers would cringe at the lack of concern over dust at Leica. In some of Leica's videos, it shows people assembling cameras and lenses without hairnets, not wearing dust-protective cover garments, and seemingly not in "clean rooms", either.

The cafe at Wetzlar is not considered a clean room?

[Huss]

7 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

My M-A turned up, and it didn’t have a meter!

Did you check the box?  

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Did you check the box?  

Yep, no arrows or dots in the viewfinder either.  Outrageous!

[ktmrider2]

My M4 does not have those distracting red dots in the viewfinder either.

[LocalHero1953]

18 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

My M4 does not have those distracting red dots in the viewfinder either.

It's 40 years old - you can't expect electronics to last that long.

[a.noctilux]

1975, last M4 ...

Electronic * of my M6 built in 1985 should last ( I hope ) longer than 40 years.

Still working fine after 37 anyway.

 

* should work like M4 without this

[CPA]

6 hours ago, logan2z said:

That's interesting, my M-A feels a little smoother to me than my M4 and the M4 has had a recent CLA.  They both feel great, to be honest, but the M-A just feels a tad smoother.  I can't compare it to my M2 at the moment since it's still sitting at Wetzlar being repaired 😔

My M-A is significantly smoother than my MP, it’s really very noticeable. 

Considering they were produced only 1.5y apart, I wonder if that difference results more from sample variation associated to mechanical items than anything else.
 

 

[Huss]

1 hour ago, CPA said:

My M-A is significantly smoother than my MP, it’s really very noticeable. 

Considering they were produced only 1.5y apart, I wonder if that difference results more from sample variation associated to mechanical items than anything else.
 

 

I think it's just sample variation.  My M3, MdA, MP, M7, M7, M-A all feel as smooth as each other, but very slightly different if that makes sense.  But none feel better than the other.

My M5 does not feel as smooth.  That is noticeable compared to the others.  It just feels 'mechanical'.

[ktmrider2]

My M4 is actually 47 or 48 years old.  To paraphrase an old movie "We don't need no stinking LED's!" with apologies to THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE'S.  I have to wonder how many parts are interchangeable with the MA.

 

 

 

[Huss]

2 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

My M4 is actually 47 or 48 years old.  To paraphrase an old movie "We don't need no stinking LED's!" with apologies to THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE'S.  I have to wonder how many parts are interchangeable with the MA.

 

 

 

The operator definitely is, and that is the most important part.