Leica APS-C -- No more!

[IkarusJohn]

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48 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes - but the relevance of that difference is highly disputable.

No, that’s just a difference of opinion.

You know the drill - larger pixels for a given resolution; less noise; greater dynamic range; effectively faster lenses for a given f-stop; reduced depth of field for a given aperture, etc etc. In practice, for given resolution, way better files.

The downside, size, expense, choice of lenses.  But, the upside is really worth it if you want the best files.

Now, you have raised the Barnack camera to a pedestal.  That view isn’t universal, and the practical advantages of each new iteration of the M camera really speaks for itself …

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[lct]

Main advantage of crop formats is smaller lenses but crop cameras are not necessary for that. Fun to use the M11 in APS-H format BTW. Reminds me of my M8.2 with more pixels and no IR issues. 

[gotium]

Just in one day today I saw: 

-Posted reviews of the new Canon APS-C R7 and R10 cameras

-Leaked details on the Fuji X-H2s APS-C camera

-News that Sony is releasing three new APS-C lenses

-Tokina annonced a new APS-C 33 f/1.2 lens

Gheez, didn't these guys get the memo?!?!? APS-C is dead!

Edited May 24, 2022 by gotium

[Foxtwo]

Yes, just saw the Canon announcement. APSC ain’t dead yet!

[M.piras]

xiaomi is the cheapest and wider joint of producer in china. what i mean is : if leica want to join the world of smartphones has to invest and create its own better if produced in europe. one of the rules in the market of luxury goods is produced by yourself only your product. that’s for apple or fashion, shoes or cars. who would buy a bmw build and designed  in china for the 95% of components? and at a higher price then other. i said bmw but could be ferrari, audi or any other brand. what is apple make exit an iphone where they just managed the store and all other stuff bbb are designed and produced by chinese companies? iphone works because even if it is produced in china is100% designed by apple and proprietary Soc and software. leica is not the di not clearly declare what they produce or design for the phones they just sell the brand to cheapest cinese producer to enable selling hoping to enter in the “mobile phone photography olympus” that now is moving the market. other luxury brand who have dove same “projects” are definitively death on the market , see for example burberry , that definitely closed physical shops in many countries and loss more than 30% of its original market since exited the news that his famous trench was completely designed produced and assembled by a textile general company in china reprinting the original design  of the company. the moral of this is, if you want to be luxury, up to date brand, you must invest or you will loose market. they are not investing but just delegating other with more market power (xiaomi) to create something with the smell of a leica but that will never give you the real leica experience. in the picture the new AMG…it is still a mercedes only because it’s written mercedes amg ?

 

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Edited May 24, 2022 by M.piras

[nicci78]

9 hours ago, M.piras said:

is this the leica of luxury and iconic images? if the new partnership is real i think will sell all my leica stuff included film cameras and move  to something else (i’ve aleeady done with hasselblad since made the partnership with Oppo) you understand what could means be on a commitment and  find some “youngster” pretending to be “professional” because of using an oppo with hasselblad engine or leica “whatever”xiaomi ? already happened to me years ago with huawei p20. Magazines, very often are more interested to free photos than good photos, hiding behind “it’s made with leica phone”…

 

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Since DJI bought Hasselblad, the Swedish is now brain dead. 
Nothing new for ever. 
Only sticking its brand over smartphones and drones lenses. 

[jaapv]

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4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

No, that’s just a difference of opinion.

You know the drill - larger pixels for a given resolution; less noise; greater dynamic range; effectively faster lenses for a given f-stop; reduced depth of field for a given aperture, etc etc. In practice, for given resolution, way better files.

The downside, size, expense, choice of lenses.  But, the upside is really worth it if you want the best files.

Now, you have raised the Barnack camera to a pedestal.  That view isn’t universal, and the practical advantages of each new iteration of the M camera really speaks for itself …

 

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[nicci78]

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/eos-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/mirrorless/eos-r7

 

I know now why Leica gave up. 

Canon released R7 at 1,499€ VAT inc. or 1,499$ without tax.

spec wise, CL got totally beaten.

 

Canon RF line up is awesome now : excellent lenses and the choice between APS-C 1.6x crop and 24x36 sensors and lenses. While retaining full compatibility with EF & EF-S lenses.  

[IkarusJohn]

27 minutes ago, jaapv said:

 

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Poor source …

Joking aside, I know what dispute means, Jaap.  There’s fact, and opinion.  The fact of sensor size is well documented.  Sure, sensors are improving, but every gain for a small sensor is transferrable to a larger one - provided the technology can be upscaled.  The physics remains the same.  So, what you saying is “fake” science?  

I think not.  You like the smaller sensors for your own reasons.  I don’t dispute those at all.

[IkarusJohn]

17 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/eos-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/mirrorless/eos-r7

 

I know now why Leica gave up. 

Canon released R7 at 1,499€ VAT inc. or 1,499$ without tax.

spec wise, CL got totally beaten.

 

Canon RF line up is awesome now : excellent lenses and the choice between APS-C 1.6x crop and 24x36 sensors and lenses. While retaining full compatibility with EF & EF-S lenses.  

That’s just another way of saying what many of us had been suggesting.

[wlaidlaw]

The Canon still suffers from the Mr. Blobby styling that has afflicted Canon cameras for many years. I much prefer Leica's clean geometric lines. 

Wilson

[frame-it]

21 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/eos-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/mirrorless/eos-r7

 

I know now why Leica gave up. 

Canon released R7 at 1,499€ VAT inc. or 1,499$ without tax.

spec wise, CL got totally beaten.

 

Canon RF line up is awesome now : excellent lenses and the choice between APS-C 1.6x crop and 24x36 sensors and lenses. While retaining full compatibility with EF & EF-S lenses.  

thanks..i must go try it out once its at the shops here, i do have an EOS-RP converted to infrared 850nm

[nicci78]

8 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

The Canon still suffers from the Mr. Blobby styling that has afflicted Canon cameras for many years. I much prefer Leica's clean geometric lines. 

Wilson

haha Canon RFs are ugly as hell next the the CL

[nicci78]

Just imagine the R7 with their Speed booster Mount Adapter EF-EOS R 0.71x 

For example EF 50mm f/1.2 L will be equivalent to 57mm f/1.4 while maintaining f/0.9 light gathering

So you can maintain full frame field of view and depth of field. While having one more stop of light gathering

https://www.canon-europe.com/lenses/mount-adapter-ef-eos-r-0-71x/

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Leica should have made their own speed booster for M lenses on CL. And a close focusing adapter for M lenses like voigtlander did for Sony FE mount. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by nicci78

[jaapv]

13 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Poor source …

Joking aside, I know what dispute means, Jaap.  There’s fact, and opinion.  The fact of sensor size is well documented.  Sure, sensors are improving, but every gain for a small sensor is transferrable to a larger one - provided the technology can be upscaled.  The physics remains the same.  So, what you saying is “fake” science?  

I think not.  You like the smaller sensors for your own reasons.  I don’t dispute those at all.

However, my point was something different. It was about the irrelevance of sensor size -within reasonable limits- for the content and artistic impact of a photograph  

 

 

 

 

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Just imagine the R7 with their Speed booster Mount Adapter EF-EOS R 0.71x 

For example EF 50mm f/1.2 L will be equivalent to 57mm f/1.4 while maintaining f/0.9 light gathering

So you can maintain full frame field of view and depth of field. While having one more stop of light gathering

https://www.canon-europe.com/lenses/mount-adapter-ef-eos-r-0-71x/

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Leica should have made their own speed booster for M lenses on CL. And a close focusing adapter for M lenses like voigtlander did for Sony FE mount. 

Oh dear, that light gathering red herring again.,,.

[IkarusJohn]

Just now, jaapv said:

However, my point was something different. It was about the irrelevance of sensor size -within reasonable limits- for the content and artistic impact of a photograph  

Right - your preference, about which there can be no dispute … [ insert preferred Latin tag ]

[jaapv]

Actually most of my photography happens to be on FF cameras. I would hardly describe my signaling as irrelevant the whole sensor size debate, which seems to have taken on religious overtones, as expressing a preference. 
You are missing the core of my point that nobody will judge the final image on basis of the sensor size (OK, maybe a pixel-peeping geek would, but that is about technology, not photography) 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/eos-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/mirrorless/eos-r7

God, this looks ugly af!!!

Is it just my impression or the camera is quite bulky for being an APS-C?

[jaapv]

24 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

God, this looks ugly af!!!

Is it just my impression or the camera is quite bulky for being an APS-C?

About the same bulk as the Panasonic S5 I would say. Clearly intended for use with long tele, where APS-C is an advantage, as is the hefty handgrip. Anyway, this is what happens when you put stuff like flip screens and IBIS in an APS-C camera.