Leica APS-C -- No more!

[IkarusJohn]

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7 minutes ago, Louis said:

So, don’t waste your time here. … 

You feel my contributions to the thread as a TL2 owner were a waste of time?  Sorry to hear that, Louis.  

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[tritentrue]

As owner of two CL bodies as well as five TL lenses, I agree with Louis.  The thread is based on the hope that Leica will choose to continue the APS-C line.  

Any negativity arises from Leica's failure to address the status of their APS-C line.  Or from "contributions" to the thread by those who fail to understand its purpose.

Edited March 17, 2022 by tritentrue

[lct]

26 minutes ago, tritentrue said:

As owner of two CL bodies as well as five TL lenses, I agree with Louis.  The thread is based on the hope that Leica will choose to continue the APS-C line.  

Any negativity arises from Leica's failure to address the status of their APS-C line.  Or from "contributions" to the thread by those who fail to understand its purpose.

Are we allowed to contribute our own way on this good old forum? My own way is to remain positive i.e. to tell that the APS-C line is perfectly usable with current CL and TL cameras and may as well continue with compact FF cameras like Pana S5 or Sigma FP and possibly tomorrow more compact SL cameras in crop mode. Leica will talk when they are ready to do so i.e. when they can announce a solution, which implies to unveil projects that can be disclosed to the public. 

[DirkS]

I also have 5 APS-C Leica lenses.

I love my CL and also like my T, but the decisive advantage for me is the more compact lenses.

I could already use them on the SL2 with about 24 MPix. Successors to the SL2 will perhaps have 60 or more MPix, the resolution will also increase when using the APS-C lenses. If the successors of the SL2 then become smaller, everything is fine.

[tritentrue]

I just received a very polite and prompt response from Leica's information service.  According to the gentleman, there's no information that the APS-C line will not be continued.

Although in my query I mentioned wondering about the status of the line, my direct question was about what Leica's intention is.  So . . . no answer, as the respondent professes not to have that information.  The double negative says a lot.

I'll happily shoot with what I have until either it no longer works or is substantially outdated. And replace it, when the time comes, with a product from a more customer-friendly maker.

 

Attitude DOES matter to me.

[Planetwide]

I am curious, why is Sigma continuing to introduce L mount APS-C lenses?

Edited March 17, 2022 by Planetwide

[frame-it]

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16 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

I am curious, why is Sigma continuing to introduce L mount APS-C lenses?

because the CL2 might come later this year

[Boojay]

23 minutes ago, frame-it said:

because the CL2 might come later this year

More likely because it's a simple thing to add the L mount to the list of other mounts the lenses are sold for, Sony, Canon, Fuji,  M4/3, they will presumably drop the mount when/if sales don't meet targets.  As much as I would like it I really don't see Sigma or Panasonic entering the aps-c market with an L mount body.

2 hours ago, tritentrue said:

I just received a very polite and prompt response from Leica's information service.  According to the gentleman, there's no information that the APS-C line will not be continued.

Although in my query I mentioned wondering about the status of the line, my direct question was about what Leica's intention is.  So . . . no answer, as the respondent professes not to have that information.  The double negative says a lot.

I'll happily shoot with what I have until either it no longer works or is substantially outdated. And replace it, when the time comes, with a product from a more customer-friendly maker.

 

Attitude DOES matter to me.

Sometimes no news is good news - maybe?  Should we be grateful for it not being total Mushroom management🙂.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Boojay

[Viv]

8 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

You feel my contributions to the thread as a TL2 owner were a waste of time?  Sorry to hear that, Louis.  

Louis is a master of sparkling repartee. Not.

[Le Chef]

29 minutes ago, Viv said:

Louis is a master of sparkling repartee. Not.

Louis makes a grown up and constructive contribution to this discussion. It’s just unfortunate that some people appear not to understand what this thread is about. 

[Kim Dahl]

That SL does not sell very well are facts.  At least in this country.  There has been 1 piece of SL2s at a dealer for over 1 year now.  It has not been sold.  The camera is at an indicative high price but if they want to sell it I'm sure it can be bought for much far less.  But it is still not sold.  I got a really good "swap offer" in Leica's campaigns but I did not buy anyway.  I'm nervous that L mount will be Sigma and Panasonic and I do not want that route.  Leica for me now is now Q and M. I still have my TL2 and all TL zoom and 35 1.4 - I keep a little more but if I am offered a fair price in exchange for the Leica M I would like to sell.  I hope it goes better for Leica and I wish them all the best.  I think so in a forum like this - it's okay to talk when we're worried about a company we've supported and loved for many years.  But the camera industry and Leica's business strategy have changed.  But more openness at Leica would be good.

[Planetwide]

Leica has to realize that new equipment introductions drive sales. This is the new model. The lack of development of the SL line is directly responsible for the diminishing sales. Lowering the price will only get you so far. The M11 has created a ton of buzz and interest. 6 months from now there will be a bunch of lightly used M11's for sale... And so the cycle continues.

[Le Chef]

31 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

Leica has to realize that new equipment introductions drive sales. This is the new model.

Being pedantic I would argue that this sales driver is as old as the hills. New product introductions (should) have always created interest and excitement, bring in new users and encourage existing users of the old model to trade up.

Leica's vulnerabilities today are likely lack funds to develop both a replacement for the APSC line with too slow a return on that investment. Their FF SL2/S is too big and too heavy for some Leica owners to trade up to, and for new users too big and expensive a commitment that would mean buying a whole new set of lenses as well.

While I have no idea what Leica's finances are like, it might have made more sense a couple of years ago to look at developing the APSC line (maybe including a fixed lens CL Vario or CL fixed 35mm, or a joint venture camera with Sigma) and leaving the SL to tread water until they could develop new smaller FF bodies and lighter lenses.

Food for thought...

Edited March 17, 2022 by Le Chef

[Kim Dahl]

I think you've got something right. SL is too big and expensive compared to what it can and it has gone ALL ALL too slow to come up with new lenses mm .

In addition, there are far too many competitors in the FF group. CL which is fantastic for "old" M lenses - and the size ratio also fits well with CL. Would have been a much better bid. There is no competition. 

A new "CL" with M mount and evf I am almost sure to come. It will be toot stupid if not. Even with L mount but a camera that is adapted to M lenses as well. Then they will be able to keep life in L mount longer.

But I think it has to go fast so as not to lose that chance too.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Kim Dahl

[Ivar B]

14 hours ago, tritentrue said:

According to a local insider, full-frame L-mount is also not selling well for Leica.  He tells me that in sales meetings, the reps instruct the dealers and salesmen to hold the line in prices.  But in their subsequent one-on-one conversations, they tell them to push the SL cameras out the door for whatever price they can get for them.  According to him, the current "Change/switch to Leica" trade-in promotion is prompted by a large amount of unsold stock.

Anyway, yesterday I sent a very direct query to Wetzlar asking for a definitive response on the future of APS-C.  Now waiting to hear what they have to say.  Or if they even bother to reply, which would also be an answer of sorts.

Unfortunately, I think you are right. The good news for Leica is that the M11 is selling very well.

I don`t know what will happen to the APS-C. I have a Paul Smith CL with some lenses, and I am very happy with this.

I am led to believe that there will be some news soon, but not necessarily good news. 

[Kim Dahl]

3 minutes ago, Ivar B said:

Unfortunately, I think you are right. The good news for Leica is that the M11 is selling very well.

I don`t know what will happen to the APS-C. I have a Paul Smith CL with some lenses, and I am very happy with this.

I am led to believe that there will be some news soon, but not necessarily good news. 

You know a little about what's going on ?

[Ivar B]

1 minute ago, Kim Dahl said:

You know a little about what's going on ?

Just rumours based on a dealer in Germany. I don`t think anyone knows for certain except Leica management. 

[Kim Dahl]

5 minutes ago, Ivar B said:

Just rumours based on a dealer in Germany. I don`t think anyone knows for certain except Leica management. 

I've heard the same thing - SL is selling very poorly and M and Q are Leica's best bids for a future. Do you think they will say it out loud at some point?

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[Ivar B]

26 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

I've heard the same thing - SL is selling very poorly and M and Q are Leica's best bids for a future. Do you think they will say it out loud at some point?

I am for now not worried about the immediate future of the SL system, but the future might look dim when it comes to APS-C. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

At the time of CL's introduction, its 24 MPx sensor gave Leica a head start on supporting the 48-64 MPx sensors that later appeared in the M10-R or S3,  I suspect.  I wonder if a CL2 could be supported to introduce a small portion of a future 80-100MPx BSI sensor, destined for use in a larger camera.  This would move it up to something like 40 MPx, which the present set of lenses (not likely to be replaced or added to soon) can support.  But where do they put the 7-8 mm thick IBIS unit that it would need?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by scott kirkpatrick