Ktsa5239 Posted April 14, 2022 Share #441 Posted April 14, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Constantly mind blown on how amazing the M11 is, this is shot handheld on 35mm heavily cropped Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329865-problems-getting-sharp-images-by-60mp/?do=findComment&comment=4418331'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 Hi Ktsa5239, Take a look here Problems getting sharp images by 60MP. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
insomnia Posted April 14, 2022 Share #442 Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) Am 10.4.2022 um 15:35 schrieb Photoworks: this is already dark in Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ISO 1600 f2.8 1/60s I am satisfied with his results.. great, unusual perspective! is that from The Lake? Edited April 14, 2022 by insomnia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted April 14, 2022 Share #443 Posted April 14, 2022 On 4/12/2022 at 7:33 PM, M10RUser said: Honestly. They look like iPhone photos. I am tickled by your positivity. Yeah the iPhone are getting better and better. nice to see the M11 can mach the iPhone IQ 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted April 14, 2022 Share #444 Posted April 14, 2022 6 hours ago, insomnia said: great, unusual perspective! is that from The Lake? It is NYC water supply in Central Park. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis Reservoir thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmarine Posted May 1, 2022 Share #445 Posted May 1, 2022 More MPix -> smaller pixels -> more sensitive to blur (same relative movement of the image across the sensor crosses pixel boundary on higher MPix sensor) In my experience anything above 30 MPix w/o image stabilization needs 1/4xf min hand held shutter speed (1/125 sec for 35 mm), after drinking a couple espresso's 1/8xf -> 1/250 sec 😉 So even the detail's stunning the 41 MPix of my M10M are already too much -> I still get around 20% blurred shots when using 1/2xf min. shutter speed I could imagine that's why the pixel reduction / binning feature of the M11 don't help. pixels are combined but the actual individual pixel's size are not changed ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2022 Share #446 Posted May 2, 2022 21 hours ago, Greenmarine said: More MPix -> smaller pixels -> more sensitive to blur (same relative movement of the image across the sensor crosses pixel boundary on higher MPix sensor) In my experience anything above 30 MPix w/o image stabilization needs 1/4xf min hand held shutter speed (1/125 sec for 35 mm), after drinking a couple espresso's 1/8xf -> 1/250 sec 😉 So even the detail's stunning the 41 MPix of my M10M are already too much -> I still get around 20% blurred shots when using 1/2xf min. shutter speed I could imagine that's why the pixel reduction / binning feature of the M11 don't help. pixels are combined but the actual individual pixel's size are not changed ... I'm no techie enough to comment but upsampled to 36MP, M240 pics (right) look significantly sharper than M11's (left) at 36MP when shot handheld at 1/f by this allegedly steady old guy. Here 100% crops at 1/60s with Elmar-M 50/2.8 at f/11. Full frame files below, details in exif data. M11: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-XpgpmFV/0/169ad5dc/X4/L1000454_ps-X4.jpg M240: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-9pLvMpt/0/1610d7ef/X4/M2401649_mag-X4.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329865-problems-getting-sharp-images-by-60mp/?do=findComment&comment=4428177'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted May 2, 2022 Share #447 Posted May 2, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, lct said: I'm no techie enough to comment but upsampled to 36MP, M240 pics (right) look significantly sharper than M11's (left) at 36MP when shot handheld at 1/f by this allegedly steady old guy. Here 100% crops at 1/60s with Elmar-M 50/2.8 at f/11. Full frame files below, details in exif data. M11: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-XpgpmFV/0/169ad5dc/X4/L1000454_ps-X4.jpg M240: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-9pLvMpt/0/1610d7ef/X4/M2401649_mag-X4.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Wondering out loud if applying more generous sharpening in post to the binned M11 files would help since there are not separate profiles for M11-60, M11-36, and M11-18 that are meant to maximize IQ for the binned DNGs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2022 Share #448 Posted May 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, hdmesa said: Wondering out loud if applying more generous sharpening in post to the binned M11 files would help since there are not separate profiles for M11-60, M11-36, and M11-18 that are meant to maximize IQ for the binned DNGs. Not sure if it can be of any help but i don't use LR nor lens profiles normally and none was applied to my shots above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted May 2, 2022 Share #449 Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lct said: Not sure if it can be of any help but i don't use LR nor lens profiles normally and none was applied to my shots above. Ah, well by profile I meant the main M11 camera profile that designates X-amount of sharpness is applied to the DNGs by default. Maybe Leica can change the instructions in the DNGs for 36mp and 18mp files to require alternate sharpness settings be applied to them by default. Edited May 2, 2022 by hdmesa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 2, 2022 Share #450 Posted May 2, 2022 I can get unsharp images with my 18MP Monochrom and my 24MP M10-D. I’m coming to the conclusion that sharpness isn’t an issue with the M11 - it’s just a question of good technique. Sure, it needs to be better than with my other cameras, but it seems this issue is overblown. Unlike the D800e, shutter slap isn’t an issue. At risk of repeating myself, I don’t need 60MP, but it seems the downsides are overstated. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2022 Share #451 Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) My guess is 1/f is not fast enough a shutter speed for the M11, be it in 36MP or 60MP mode and perhaps 18MP too but i will check this later on. My next test will be at 1/2f in 36MP mode again. If it solves the issue, camera shake would be the culprit as i expected but i may be wrong. Edited May 2, 2022 by lct 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted May 3, 2022 Share #452 Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) FWIW it’s valuable for me to get M11 feedback from a (clutches pearls) M240 series user making the leap to the higher res sensor. I have been swithering between M10-P, M10-R and M11. I suspect that if there had been a silver chrome M10-R-P version I would be in less of a quandary… Edited May 3, 2022 by NigelG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted May 3, 2022 Share #453 Posted May 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, lct said: My guess is 1/f is not fast enough a shutter speed for the M11, be it in 36MP or 60MP mode and perhaps 18MP too but i will check this later on. My next test will be at 1/2f in 36MP mode again. If it solves the issue, camera shake would be the culprit as i expected but i may be wrong. No, I wouldn't expect 1/f to consistently be fast enough for a 36MP camera w/o image stabilization. For someone particularly steady it might be fine, but for most people it won't be enough. Better to use 1/2f for 36MP and 1/4f for 60MP if you want images to look critically sharp at 100%. This isn't a camera flaw--it's just physics. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoarFM Posted May 3, 2022 Share #454 Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, lct said: I'm no techie enough to comment but upsampled to 36MP, M240 pics (right) look significantly sharper than M11's (left) at 36MP when shot handheld at 1/f by this allegedly steady old guy. Here 100% crops at 1/60s with Elmar-M 50/2.8 at f/11. Full frame files below, details in exif data. M11: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-XpgpmFV/0/169ad5dc/X4/L1000454_ps-X4.jpg M240: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-9pLvMpt/0/1610d7ef/X4/M2401649_mag-X4.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Don't use f11, you are diffraction limited approaching f8 with your M11. Use a faster shutter speed. Do not dismiss misfocus, either by you or and out of tolerance rangefinder, as cause Edited May 3, 2022 by SoarFM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted May 3, 2022 Share #455 Posted May 3, 2022 It's early days, yet, but I'm not noticing any behavior with respect to resolution/sharpness/shutter speed that is different than one would expect. I can get consistently sharp results, assuming I don't mess up the focus, at 1/4f and 60 megapixels. At 1/2f it's likely that I will get a sharp result. At 1/f it's about 30%. If I drop to 36 megapixels (either through down-sampling in post or through choosing a 36 megapixel DNG) I seem to do pretty well at 1/2f. Results can still be less than critically sharp, but I'm much more likely to have issues from focus than from motion blur. At 18 megapixels (again, either method), 1/2f is pretty much perfect with regard to required shutter speed to avoid motion blur, and I can generally get away with 1/f. I never had an M10R, but that is consistent with what I saw with my M10. That was a 24 megapixel camera, and it generally did well at 1/f, but I would use 1/2f if I really wanted to be safe. Here is a sample crop from my son's prom this past weekend... 75mm APO Summicron at f/2, roughly 1.3m distance (head and shoulders shot), window light, ISO 64, 1/60s, so 1/f. Yes, I got lucky on this shot--I took a bunch and maybe half were critically sharp. That's what I would expect at 1/f using a 60 megapixel camera without OIS. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329865-problems-getting-sharp-images-by-60mp/?do=findComment&comment=4428266'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted May 3, 2022 Share #456 Posted May 3, 2022 5 hours ago, lct said: I'm no techie enough to comment but upsampled to 36MP, M240 pics (right) look significantly sharper than M11's (left) at 36MP when shot handheld at 1/f by this allegedly steady old guy. Here 100% crops at 1/60s with Elmar-M 50/2.8 at f/11. Full frame files below, details in exif data. M11: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-XpgpmFV/0/169ad5dc/X4/L1000454_ps-X4.jpg M240: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-9pLvMpt/0/1610d7ef/X4/M2401649_mag-X4.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! How many tests did you run at that shutter speed? The chance of sharpness at certain shutter speed changes gradually. It does not change suddenly from 100% to 0%. In theory you could have gotten the opposite result as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 3, 2022 Share #457 Posted May 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, SrMi said: How many tests did you run at that shutter speed? Two series of four and kept the sharper. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 3, 2022 Share #458 Posted May 3, 2022 1 hour ago, SoarFM said: Don't use f11, you are diffraction limited approaching f8 with your M11. Use a faster shutter speed. Do not dismiss misfocus, either by you or and out of tolerance rangefinder, as cause Did this in purpose to compare to what i will do at 1/2f. The result being sharp on the M240, i will keep the same aperture for the following tests if i have enough light for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted May 3, 2022 Share #459 Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) vor 9 Stunden schrieb lct: My guess is 1/f is not fast enough a shutter speed for the M11, be it in 36MP or 60MP mode and perhaps 18MP too but i will check this later on. My next test will be at 1/2f in 36MP mode again. If it solves the issue, camera shake would be the culprit as i expected but i may be wrong. I agree. 1/f is ok, but I would expect 3 more or less blurry images out of 4. 1/2f will improve things significantly. 1/4f and you do not have to worry anymore. BTW: When I scroll through the images I shot with 24MB M cameras, I do realize now that quite a few were (while ok) not perfectly sharp either even at 1/2f. Edited May 3, 2022 by anickpick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 3, 2022 Share #460 Posted May 3, 2022 At 1/2f (1/125s) and 36mp, the M11 improves significantly but hardly beats the M240 upsampled to 36mp. M11: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-rL8qwH5/0/d02f9542/X4/L1000517-X4.jpg M240: https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-5028-v2/i-ZfSsPfM/0/a455e8fc/X4/M2401678_mag-X4.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329865-problems-getting-sharp-images-by-60mp/?do=findComment&comment=4428769'>More sharing options...
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