M11 Safe Shutter Speed?

[Photoworks]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Cartier Bresson had choice of films and back then everything was slow, and often he didn't see and developed contact sheets form months or year when he would go back to the agency.

Camera shake it the same at different resolution, just think about it, Leica give you the same details image a different resolution. It is not the case that they look different at different pixel count. 

If you shake at 1/x2 then shoot faster. I was able to get usable images at 1/8, 1/15... speeds. Look of the M11 image feed!

 

https://www.instagram.com/kroke/

[Herr Barnack]

Oh, God - we're doomed.  With the M11, we must use at least a 15 pound tripod and a cable release to have any hope of getting sharp images at 60mp.  😢

Edited February 13, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Bernd-B]

Taken as a test in Wieskirche, southern Bavaria: M11at 60MP - Apo-Summicron 75 - f2.8 - 1/80 - ISO200 - focussed with the rangefinder and shot without tripod with the electronic shutter

Best regards

Bernd

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[peterinkingston]

5 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Cartier Bresson had choice of films and back then everything was slow, and often he didn't see and developed contact sheets form months or year when he would go back to the agency.

Camera shake it the same at different resolution, just think about it, Leica give you the same details image a different resolution. It is not the case that they look different at different pixel count. 

If you shake at 1/x2 then shoot faster. I was able to get usable images at 1/8, 1/15... speeds. Look of the M11 image feed!

 

https://www.instagram.com/kroke/

Just seen your reply.

Excellent, exactly what I needed to see.

Thank you.

[peterinkingston]

1 hour ago, Bernd-B said:

Taken as a test in Wieskirche, southern Bavaria: M11at 60MP - Apo-Summicron 75 - f2.8 - 1/80 - ISO200 - focussed with the rangefinder and shot without tripod with the electronic shutter

Best regards

Bernd

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Amazing

[Hakiroto]

@peterinkingston I know this is an old thread, but I'm wondering how your experience has been with the M11 over the past couple of years, especially as you had a few concerns just before you got your M11. Thanks!

[01af]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Am 7.2.2022 um 17:23 schrieb yudafu2:

What is the minimum shutter speed that you use to prevent camera shake?

Same as with any other 35-mm-format camera.

.

Am 7.2.2022 um 17:23 schrieb yudafu2:

Is the minimum speed different when using different-size DNGS? Say, does it require faster shutter when shooting 60 MP while slower shutter at 18 or 36 MP?

No.

[lct]

Still 1/(2f) sec. For slower shutter speeds i've kept my old Sony a7r2 mod with IBIS and acquired a Sigma FPL that has no IBIS but EIS (Electronic Image Stabilization). 

[Strmbrg]

The blur caused by camera-shake is not dependent on how many pixels the sensor consists of. At least not if one look at the whole image.
For me, I look at the whole image - when I have finished it. If it looks blurry due to shake, it does so regardless of if it is captured on a, say, 6 megapixel or a 60 megapixel sensor.

If you - for example - move the camera 3mm vertically during the exposure, this will look exactly the same regardless of the total numbers of pixels in the sensor. 

Sorry to insult or so, but It is a crazy claim this, and even crazier that it seems to be so established.

[lct]

Do you mean you don't magnify your images when you're working on them? If you don't, i would try then you would find that camera shake blur that is invisible or almost so out of 6mp sensors becomes  obvious on 60mp ones.

Edited May 17, 2024 by lct

[01af]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb lct:

... then you would find that camera shake blur that is invisible or almost so out of 6 MP sensors becomes obvious on 60 MP ones.

Blur caused by camera shake that's obvious on 60 MP sensors will be equally obvious on 6 MP sensors.

[pegelli]

The visibility of camera shake is set by the output size.

Yes, on a 60 MP sensor camera vs. a 6MP camera the shake will occupy more pixels and will be more obvious when pixel peeping at 100%, but when you print the image on a given paper size you can't observe any difference caused by the camera shake.

[lct]

16 minutes ago, 01af said:

Blur caused by camera shake that's obvious on 60 MP sensors will be equally obvious on 6 MP sensors.

We have not the same gear then...

[mboerma]

I agree that the MPs don't matter, but the difference between the M11 and previous digital M's is the shutter. This, in my case, causes more camera shake (maybe except for the original M8). On my M11 the camera shake is most felt at or around 1/125s. The whole "close, open, close, open" sequence for each photo taken is not as well dampened as the more simple "open, close" sequence on previous camera's. It has to do this much faster because of the extra "open, close" steps. I simply can feel it in my nose. (I wrote this two years ago and I still stand by it! 🙂 )

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, lct said:

We have not the same gear then...

It depends on how you look at 6MP and 60MP. If you look at 100%, i.e., look at 6MP with a much smaller magnification, then 60MP will show more blur. However, if you look at the same magnification, you will not see any difference. Try resizing your 60MP to 6 MP to look at the same magnification as a 6MP sensor.

If you want to have less blur at 100%, you need faster shutter speeds with higher resolution sensors.

Many try to make the point that the output is more relevant than pixel peeping.

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, mboerma said:

I agree that the MPs don't matter, but the difference between the M11 and previous digital M's is the shutter. This, in my case, causes more camera shake (maybe except for the original M8). On my M11 the camera shake is most felt at or around 1/125s. The whole "close, open, close, open" sequence for each photo taken is not as well dampened as the more simple "open, close" sequence on previous camera's. It has to do this much faster because of the extra "open, close" steps. I simply can feel it in my nose. (I wrote this two years ago and I still stand by it! 🙂 )

The feeling is not relevant if it has not been confirmed by practical results.

I found practically no shutter shock with the M11 and M10R. When shooting electronically, the M11 has absolutely zero shutter shock, while previous digital Leicas have a tiny bit. In practice, the shutter shock on all digital Ms is not relevant, IMO.

[mboerma]

Just now, SrMi said:

The feeling is not relevant if it has not been confirmed by practical results.

I found practically no shutter shock with the M11 and M10R. When shooting electronically, the M11 has absolutely zero shutter shock, while previous digital Leicas have a tiny bit. In practice, the shutter shock on all digital Ms is not relevant, IMO.

I can see it in the photos.

[SrMi]

Just now, mboerma said:

I can see it in the photos.

Please share, as it contradicts multiple controlled tests that I made with M10R and M11.

[mboerma]

I will. But not now, it is too late in the evening here. And as we all know one M11 is not the same as the other. 

(And in the end I don't really care that it does shake a bit. I do not have a fetish for sharpness and I don't care for scientific tests under controlled conditions. I love my M11. I have no real issues with it, but this is something I noticed from the start with my M11. Not sure if it was in this topic.)

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jaapv]

On 2/7/2022 at 5:23 PM, yudafu2 said:

I am waiting for a silver M11, but I have a question for the lucky owners: 

What is the minimum shutter speed that you use to prevent camera shake?  I heard you need 3 times the focal length to be sure. Is that true?   A related question: is the minimum speed different when using different size DNGs? Say, does it require faster shutter when shooting 60mp while slower shutter at 18mp/36mp?

Thanks in advance. 

George 

It depends entirely on the steadiness of your hands, there is no fixed rule. I can shoot an M9  35 mm down to ¼" with confidence. I would trust myself with an M11 at 1/15th with a 35 mm lens. Others may differ.