tashley Posted February 7, 2022 Share #1 Posted February 7, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) My current lineup is 90 Macro, 50 APO, 50 Nocti F1, 35 FLE, 28 Summaron and a really bad 21mm Voigtlander that I'd rather not mention in any more detail The Summaron is fun, but ultimately it's too smeary at the edges unless you stop it down to where diffraction kicks in. Also the gap between 28 and 35 isn't quite enough for me. I have the new Visoflex and it lives in my backpack always ready so, no need for the FrankenFinder. I am thinking of getting a WATE, used, preferably - but before I scour for one, does anyone have experience of how it is with the M11? I'd really like opinions. Thanks in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2022 Posted February 7, 2022 Hi tashley, Take a look here WATE on M11?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jonoslack Posted February 7, 2022 Share #2 Posted February 7, 2022 Hi Tim I've been using it and it does a great job, better I think than on an M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 12 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329564-wate-on-m11/?do=findComment&comment=4378572'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted February 7, 2022 Thanks Jono. Much appreciated. Now to find a second hand one…. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsleica Posted February 7, 2022 Share #4 Posted February 7, 2022 I found a used WATE in LN cond for around $3K usd. If you dont mind a little distortion..a really nice lens. The Finder is another story.. I bought a used one in nice condition for half price..beautiful looking finder.. But.. After a year or 2 of minimal usage..it just jammed up and is basically useless. I will either try to get it fixed or buy another at some point..maybe.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 7, 2022 Share #5 Posted February 7, 2022 With WATE, I would use Visoflex 2 instead of the Frankenfinder. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted February 7, 2022 Share #6 Posted February 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, SrMi said: With WATE, I would use Visoflex 2 instead of the Frankenfinder. thats what i am doing, or even live view is often sufficient 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
52K Posted February 8, 2022 Share #7 Posted February 8, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) The WATE works very well with the M11, just as good as the M10-R which was a big improvement over the 24MP versions of the M10 having more contrast. Definitely Visoflex over that awful frankenfinder. I bought my WATE used, and it came with the frankenfinder, which I left in the shop. There was no way I'd attach such an awful thing on my camera. 🙂 Sadly the Visoflex 2 on my M11 broke after 10 minutes, so I've not used the WATE much out and about. It is however one of my favourite and almost always carry lenses, even if it doesn't get used so much. Being so light, it's an easy choice to leave it in the bottom of my camera bag. I'm still waiting for my replacement Visoflex and hoping it will arrive soon as I love the wide shots at 16mm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 8, 2022 Share #8 Posted February 8, 2022 Bought my WATE many years ago for my M (240). It came with a finder which I used once and then immediately sold for about 25% of what I paid for the set. I use the Visoflex and have never once missed the Frankenfinder. Still waiting for my M11 EVF but using live view I find it to be pretty much the same as my M10R. Some lenses improved but the WATE wasn't one of them but as a zoom lens I'm not surprised. It is already very good on the M10R and appears to be very good on the M11. Enough so, that I don't have a desire to buy any fixed lenses for the occasional use I have for ultra wide on my M. Gordon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted February 9, 2022 Share #9 Posted February 9, 2022 The WATE is at is best on the M11, AFAIC. No scientific evidence, I haven't bothered to do any direct comparisons with the 10-R, but empirically one suspects that the new cover glass and BSI is having some positive effects w.r.t to the WATE and likely other wides as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted February 9, 2022 Share #10 Posted February 9, 2022 The WATE is one of my favorite lenses and it is always in my bag. Mine came with the Frankenfinder, but I have never used it. When I first got the lens, I used it with the Viso 020. I just found this to be too cumbersome. Best practice for me is to focus if necessary with the ovf, and then compose and frame in Live View. This is much quicker in the field than using the EFV. Worked like a charm photographing architecture and cathedral interiors in Europe. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 15, 2022 Share #11 Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) I have just tested 2 (used) samples of WATE on a proto M11. My findings were, that the WATE works fine on the M11. Stopping down to f8.0 improves the IQ over the frame. found the 21 SEM to be better though, better sharpens, better corners, better micro contrast. 21 SEM at f4.0 seems more consistent IQ than WATE at F8.0. I must admit I did a lot of pixel peeping, I did not print and compared prints, just zoom in ,out side by side. I also compared the SL 16-35 to WATE on SL, the 16-35 is clearly better optics. My conclusion that the WATE at f8.0 can produce nice sharp images on the M11, and the flexibility is great. It is however not totally on the same level as the 21 SEM for example. I ask myself if I am to "picky" though. Edited February 15, 2022 by tom0511 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 15, 2022 Share #12 Posted February 15, 2022 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329564-wate-on-m11/?do=findComment&comment=4384085'>More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted February 15, 2022 Share #13 Posted February 15, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 9:31 PM, Tailwagger said: The WATE is at is best on the M11, AFAIC. No scientific evidence, I haven't bothered to do any direct comparisons with the 10-R, but empirically one suspects that the new cover glass and BSI is having some positive effects w.r.t to the WATE and likely other wides as well. I'd agree that the 21mm SEM, which I also own, gives the impression of being a tick sharper, but the added flexibility of the WATE more than outweighs this, particularly on the M11 where the WATE really comes into its own... as do a lot of lenses, actually. A bit of proof as to the level of corner acuity. The final B&W version of this shot is in the M11 thread here. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 16mm, ISO 64, 1/200" reported F9.5, likely F8 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 16mm, ISO 64, 1/200" reported F9.5, likely F8 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329564-wate-on-m11/?do=findComment&comment=4384246'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted February 16, 2022 Thanks everyone - I found a dealer with two used copies, both looked immaculate. I chose the slightly cheaper one and it had the most bizarre issue, which was that there was an area to the left of centre but not stretching all the way to the left of the frame, where there was real weakness. It looked like a form of astigmatism. It was very noticeable on all shots at F4 one honestly I could still see it clearly at 5.6 but by F8 it was well hidden. So I took thad copy back, paid an extra £100 for the other copy, and it is much more consistent across the frame and nicely sharp all over at F8. I think this is going to be a really useful lens and I am very grateful to everyone for having shared their experience and encouraged me to give it a go! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 17, 2022 Share #15 Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/16/2022 at 4:01 AM, tom0511 said: I have just tested 2 (used) samples of WATE on a proto M11. My findings were, that the WATE works fine on the M11. Stopping down to f8.0 improves the IQ over the frame. found the 21 SEM to be better though, better sharpens, better corners, better micro contrast. 21 SEM at f4.0 seems more consistent IQ than WATE at F8.0. I must admit I did a lot of pixel peeping, I did not print and compared prints, just zoom in ,out side by side. I also compared the SL 16-35 to WATE on SL, the 16-35 is clearly better optics. My conclusion that the WATE at f8.0 can produce nice sharp images on the M11, and the flexibility is great. It is however not totally on the same level as the 21 SEM for example. I ask myself if I am to "picky" though. An excellent summary. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 18, 2022 Share #16 Posted February 18, 2022 vor 14 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography: An excellent summary. Gordon Hi Gordon, thanks- do you also use a WATE? Whats your opinion/experience? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 18, 2022 Share #17 Posted February 18, 2022 7 hours ago, tom0511 said: Hi Gordon, thanks- do you also use a WATE? Whats your opinion/experience? Yes I do and my experience matches yours. The WATE is a very good zoom that peaks at f8. It is not quite up to what I get from my SL16-35 or Sigma 14-24 but since I use an ultra wide occasionally on my M's it is my wide angle of choice due to its flexibility. It is very good though and I like that it's an actual zoom unlike the MATE. I bought mine used but close to mint condition a decade ago with the Frankenfinder but ditched the finder as soon as I could use an EVF on my M240. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2022 Share #18 Posted February 18, 2022 Sold my WATE 4.0-16-18-21mm for a SEM 3.4-21mm. The 3.4-21 is much more workable than the over-engineered WATE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share #19 Posted February 19, 2022 23 hours ago, mnutzer said: Sold my WATE 4.0-16-18-21mm for a SEM 3.4-21mm. The 3.4-21 is much more workable than the over-engineered WATE. Interesting. Care to elucidate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsleica Posted February 19, 2022 Share #20 Posted February 19, 2022 You buy the WATE for 16mm & 18mm..and 21mm is frosting on the cake.. If you dont need 16 or 18..there are other choices. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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