Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

[lct]

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I hope this feature could be disabled then. I have nothing against automation per se but M-mount cameras are not supposed to work the same was as Nikon or Sony cameras. I  suppose the SL3 can do things like that but i have no experience with it.

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[dsalamena]

Focus on the Nikon zf is still manual with manual lenses.  The only difference would be that instead of rangefinder alignment, focus confirmation is displayed on the evf with a green light. 
I believe a Leica M EVF, If we’ll ever see one, would have to find a new way to confirm focus acquisition. 
Allowing immediate zoom on the eye is an also a useful tool. It just makes manual focus faster and more precise. 

[lct]

Matter of tastes but thanks no thanks sorry. I have no experience with the Nikon zf but i bet it does not focus M lenses through focus cams on the lens and the camera. It is the way M-mount cameras do work and i hope a possible EVF-M won't change anything to that. YMMV.

Edited March 17, 2024 by lct

[dsalamena]

Don’t get me wrong I love my M10 and would not change it for a Nikon/Sony/Canon. 
The whole point of a possible EVF M, though, is to make focusing easier, faster and more precise.  Otherwise there would no point in making a EVF, we are all happy with the rangefinder mechanism so far. 

Edited March 17, 2024 by dsalamena

[lct]

Just now, dsalamena said:

Don’t gent me wrong I love my M10 and would not change it for a Nikon/Sony/Canon. 
The whole point of a possible EVF M, though, is to make focusing easier, faster and more precise.  Otherwise there would no point in making a EVF, we are all happy with the rangefinder mechanism so far. 

Well i cannot follow you on that sorry again. The EVF-M would not have an RF mode by definition so the only valid comparison would be with the M11 and the Visoflex 2. For a full use of their features, especially auto zoom, the camera has to have a focus cam in the form of a roller cam and make use of the focus cams of M lenses.

[ksrhee]

If this is the case, this will not be an M camera but something completely different. I can envision the current Q series with interchangeable lenses. I, for one, would not buy it since one of the main reasons is to use the traditional RF camera with the manual focus mechanism. Recently, I took out my M10M and Q3 for an outing. I enjoyed using the M10M so much that the Q3 stayed in my bag. So, thanks, but no thanks.  Yes, once in a blue moon, it might take me a few more seconds to focus (most of the time, focusing is fast), but that's the beauty of the camera.  It makes me more interactive with the camera.  

[Le Chef]

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3 minutes ago, ksrhee said:

I can envision the current Q series with interchangeable lenses.

As has been said many times before this is never going to happen.

[KFo]

TL;DR version.  No!  I see no advantage.

I played with an SL2 that had the Voigtlander vogilux 35 f/1.4 on it last week.  Yup, I still dislike EVFs.  Don't like the view, don't like the focus peaking, don't like the information display, don't like nut'n about it.  I find the while mess a distraction with no advantage to me.

[pgk]

On 3/15/2024 at 4:36 PM, Tailwagger said:

Motor driven M lenses? Not for me, thanks.

Could go down the Contax AX route .....

[lct]

The EVF-M would have nothing to do with Q cameras. As it has been presented to Leica, it is an M-mount camera that would focus the same way as any M, except that the RF would be replaced by a built-in EVF. This way, unique features of M-mount cameras like auto zoom would be totally preserved. Suffice it (so to speak) to keep the current roller cam in order to bring up magnification when turning the focus ring. This way, a simple move of the roller cam would suffice to trigger image magnification, exactly the same way as it works on the M11.

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[ksrhee]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

The EVF-M would have nothing to do with Q cameras. As it has been presented to Leica, it is an M-mount camera that would focus the same way as any M, except that the RF would be replaced by a built-in EVF. This way, unique features of M-mount cameras like auto zoom would be totally preserved. Suffice it (so to speak) to keep the current roller cam in order to bring up magnification when turning the focus ring. This way, a simple move of the roller cam would suffice to trigger image magnification, exactly the same way as it works on the M11.
 

 

 

BTW, you can use the auto Zoom feature in the Q3 manual focusing.  In fact, you can specify either 3x or 6x zoom in the camera.  So, if Leica wanted (again, Leica may not do this at all), it can take the Q body and make it interchangeable.  I for one does not want my M to become one!

[ksrhee]

19 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

As has been said many times before this is never going to happen.

I certainly hope not!  I was merely speculating how it can be implemented if Leica wanted it.

[Lelmer]

1 hour ago, dsalamena said:

Don’t get me wrong I love my M10 and would not change it for a Nikon/Sony/Canon. 
The whole point of a possible EVF M, though, is to make focusing easier, faster and more precise.  Otherwise there would no point in making a EVF, we are all happy with the rangefinder mechanism so far. 

I entirely agree with you. Focus confirmation would be a plus.

[lct]

The project  presented to Leica was that of an M-mount camera.

https://www.macfilos.com/2022/10/18/leicas-stefan-daniel-on-the-retirement-of-the-leica-cl-and-some-hints-for-the-future/#comments

 

[Le Chef]

1 hour ago, ksrhee said:

I certainly hope not!  I was merely speculating how it can be implemented if Leica wanted it.

The idea of an ILC based on the Q keeps rearing its head, much like the M with an EVF. Because design and construction of the Q/Q2/Q3 is so different the task of creating an ILC would not be easy. The shutter is built into the lens and the lens is built into the camera - there’s no mount - and the sensor position is optimized for that setup. And that’s before you add the complexities of OIS. Since there is no mount you would essentially have to start from scratch. Which Leica lens mount would you use? M means manual only and you have a range of lenses to choose from. There's also the M camera which already does what you need without the need to create something new. L mount means you already have a range of autofocus lenses from Leica, Panasonic, Sigma and others. You also have an autofocus camera set in the SL -> SL3 and Lumix S5. So I don't see how it could be implemented or more importantly why.

[ksrhee]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

The idea of an ILC based on the Q keeps rearing its head, much like the M with an EVF. Because design and construction of the Q/Q2/Q3 is so different the task of creating an ILC would not be easy. The shutter is built into the lens and the lens is built into the camera - there’s no mount - and the sensor position is optimized for that setup. And that’s before you add the complexities of OIS. Since there is no mount you would essentially have to start from scratch. Which Leica lens mount would you use? M means manual only and you have a range of lenses to choose from. There's also the M camera which already does what you need without the need to create something new. L mount means you already have a range of autofocus lenses from Leica, Panasonic, Sigma and others. You also have an autofocus camera set in the SL -> SL3 and Lumix S5. So I don't see how it could be implemented or more importantly why.

I never said this would be easy. However, you might be underestimating the Leica engineering team. If they wanted, they could make this happen. For all I know, we can even have a Q mount.  However, once again, this is not something I am clamoring for.  I'm happy with the M as they are and also the. Q camera system.  Those who want this can always get the SL series of cameras.  BTW, nothing stays the same.  I never thought Nikon would abandon the F-system, but they did.  So, as Heraclitus once said, the only thing we can count on is change.  So, I   never say never. . .

[Le Chef]

It's not the engineering. They can hack the design of the Q and create something new for sure. The issue is it's simply not economically viable.

[Tailwagger]

7 hours ago, pgk said:

Could go down the Contax AX route .....

Been there, would have done that but I couldn't afford to 😀   

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[dsalamena]

Can’t really image what would be the point of making an hypothetical EVF M camera, unless it is to make focusing easier especially for aging people whose sight is not perfect anymore. 
Leica can use a M or Q body, whatever it’s technically easier, but the basic idea, in my opinion, should be based on a small body with a M mount, EVF, manual focus and some sort of focus confirmation. Eye auto detection and IBIS would be useful additions, again if technically possible. 
Anything different would be useless: we already have wonderful M manual focus and SL/Q autofocus systems. There would be no point in replicating something that already works well. 

Edited March 17, 2024 by dsalamena

[lct]

38 minutes ago, dsalamena said:

Can’t really understand what would be the point of making an hypothetical EVF M camera, unless it is to make focusing easier especially for aging people whose sight is not perfect anymore. [...]

The Visoflex 2 works well for them/us. The point is to build it into the body instead of having a bump over the rangefinder.