A running tally of M11 complaints so far

[jonoslack]

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1 hour ago, tashley said:

Right: I just shot an entire series at different ISO with pixel binning at full/med/small resolutions and using Fotos app on iPhone to set the resolution and trigger the shots. Imported them into LR and they were all the same resolution. SO there's a bug in Fotos that seems to but in fact does not allow the selection of resolution.

As I put my tripod away I said to myself - 'this is Leica. There will be something wrong with this and I will have to shoot it again.... don't shorten he legs and tighten them..' 

So I'm all set to shoot it again. Grrrr...

Hi There Tim

Frustrating! I hope you reported this from within the Fotos App?

[elmars]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

I have mine on my bedside table

Good idea, Jono! I will replace my wife too.

[elmars]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

I don't think @elmars meant that reviewers were untrustworthy, but that by using the camera differently they will get different results with things such as battery life.

So it is.

vor 10 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

Why not try Elmar's test:

Yes!

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

If we can’t trust the reviewers or the Leica claims, or the CIPA tests..then, what is the purpose of any of them existing? They are there to guide us in our purchases, so if we can’t trust them, then it makes no sense to me. But anyway, enough with this discussion. The reality is, my battery is far, far, far from any of the claims from Leica or most reviewers experience. Yours seems to be too. I care about it, you don’t seem to care about it. Fair enough, each to their own. 

Now I just need to know if this is a bug or a faulty battery; if so, I’ll get a replacement. If this is as it should be, then I will indeed return the M11.

The EPA quotes my PHEV as having 20 miles of battery range.  When the temp is a few degrees above freezing, I regularly see a range of 28-30 miles with occasional runs that have gone as high as 38. My wife rarely sees much over 22.  If you turn up the cabin temp, use heated seats and/or steering wheel, the e-range can drop into the low teens.  Likewise, if I left one of my gassers idling out in the driveway for two hours, I wouldn't expect my MPG to be unaffected. Leaving the camera on means it's sitting there idling, using energy to no purpose other than being immediately ready to shoot.

I keep repeating myself, but the testing from yesterday confirms that the biggest drain occurs, just as it did with the 10 and 10-R, when the shutter is left open.  On the 10s, as the metering was off sensor, this meant you didnt see how bad things were unless you shot in LV.  With the M11, as the shutter is open regardless of LV being active or otherwise the only difference between the RF/LV modes presumably is whether or not you're powering/driving the display. In either case, power is both required for the metering, updating the led display in the OVF as well as holding the shutter open, all of which don't come for free.

When left on, my battery drained at virtually the same rate as yours. When I set the camera to sleep, in two hours, it showed no battery drop whatsoever. Leaving the switch on with sleep defeated and expecting a full day of shooting is tantamount to turning all the climate and accessories on in an unplugged EV full day and expecting it still to be able to go anywhere significant.  It just ain't gonna happen. Given we all saw the battery in our tests drop about 10% an hour that's 10 hours of idling in the driveway before the tank goes dry.  Set sleep to 30 minutes and you should roughly double that figure. Set it to 30 seconds and I'd wager you'd see at least 24 hours. 

One final thing. Just to test the veracity of the 700 shots per charge, I put in a freshly charged battery, set the camera into continuous mode L-DNG and held down the shutter for a few minutes. After 301 shots, I got bored and gave up. My battery still showed 100% charge.  I'm sure if I had the patience I could fill the 64gb card and still have plenty of battery left. You're certainly entitled to find the situation unacceptable or perhaps you do have a bad battery, but I don't think anyone was lying to you nor do I see either utilizing sleep or simply turning the camera off as much of a burden.

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[shirubadanieru]

Thank you all, really appreciate all your replies. I will go to Leica next week just in case of a faulty battery or camera, and will continue to do further testing. With all my previous Ms, I never got below 50% battery on a day of shooting, and that’s probably because I always shoot with everything LV or screen related off in my Ms, which increases the battery significantly. 

It seems that unfortunately the M11, even though I turn off everything LV / Screen related, at the end of the day it’s as if LV is still running on the background (just without an EVF or a screen on), and that may explain the drain I’m seeing as you mentioned; that being said my standby time was set at 10min when I saw that huge drain… either way, this new way of operating an M, and how it may potentially impact the battery is unfortunate, but it might be that that’s just the reality of this new M system, which, if true, may just not be for me. But if despite this, I’m hitting anywhere close to the stated 1700 shots on rangefinder mode, then I guess it doesn’t matter much and it’s just a fact of turning it off more frequently to get somewhere around that number. 

Will see, thank you all again for your responses, and just to be clear, I’m not doubting anyone (reviewers or otherwise). 

Edited January 23, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[otto.f]

6 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I had 1K free. 30min later, turned it on again (without changing anything or taking photos) & it said 890 free

So maybe the whole problem is just in the information the camera is giving you about the remaining capacity of your battery, and not about the physical remaining capacity. I've had that with our hybrid electric Volkswagen, it drove longer than it said it would be. At the moment this problem is gone. That would mean that you can only know if you just shoot until the battery gives up physically and then count your number of shots. 

[Herr Barnack]

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2 hours ago, elmars said:

Good idea, Jono! I will replace my wife too.

What?!  There's a Leica store that will accept wives in trade toward an M11 purchase?? 😳

Edited January 23, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

This seems really way off the stated performance once again in all reviews, which should be the bare minimum capacity expected (ie w/ LV 700 shots). If you are ok with this battery life that’s totally fine, it’s your camera, but I certainly am not happy that the claims and what I’m getting are vastly different. I never use LV so can’t test it in this scenario, but I was reading all the reviews again and as stated here https://petapixel.com/2022/01/13/leica-m11-first-impressions-review/ :

“The new 1800 mAh battery — up from M10’s 1100 mAh and the same capacity as the M240 battery — provides about 63.6% more capacity compared to its predecessor. Given the 210 shot CIPA battery rating of the M10, I expected a decent, but not huge, increase in battery life. Instead, I was shocked. Whatever Leica has done here in terms of power efficiency, much of it likely owing to the new MAESTRO III processor, is nothing short of incredible. The M11 is CIPA rated for about 700 shots (in live-view) and rated for about 1,700 in “Leica Adapted Shooting Style” (using the rangefinder). I firmly trust both figures at a minimum. In the time I had the camera, I only charged the battery once, and it’s quite possible I may not have needed to do that.

(…) CIPA is evaluating battery performance is badly in need of updating, and any numbers it provides tend to be woefully below actual performance.”

Leica's technical information says that CIPA 700 shots is in rangefinder mode, not in the live view mode:

Approx. 700 shots (in accordance with CIPA Standard in rangefinder mode), up to approx. 1700 shots (Leica adapted shooting cycle)

Edited January 23, 2022 by SrMi

[mon10a]

3 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Thank you all, really appreciate all your replies. . . .

I think this has been mentioned before, but as long as you are continuing your testing for a while, try completely cycling the battery (running from 100% down to almost 0% then recharging to 100%) a few times. I remember that “conditioning” the battery in my then new M10 made a big difference in battery life for that camera. Hope this helps.

m

[M11 for me]

Hi all, I must say that my M11 works well so there is no real reason to join into that discussion unless I take the thread title seriosly.

There is something that upsets me:

All my shots I have GPS tagged. I use the GEOTAGR App.

Now I realize that all my M11 have a GPS Tag even though there is no sensor metering this. As a matter of fact the location is always 000.000E and 000.000W.

Why is there a tag at all? As a consequence in Lightroom my App does not work any more. I cannot understand why Leico in the EXIF Data puts in a Tag at all.

Edited January 23, 2022 by M10 for me

[tashley]

4 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There Tim

Frustrating! I hope you reported this from within the Fotos App?

Thanks Jono. I will!

[digitalfx]

53 minutes ago, mon10a said:

I think this has been mentioned before, but as long as you are continuing your testing for a while, try completely cycling the battery (running from 100% down to almost 0% then recharging to 100%) a few times. I remember that “conditioning” the battery in my then new M10 made a big difference in battery life for that camera. Hope this helps.

m

Its a Lithium Ion battery, which doesnt like to be treated like this

But seriously, its normally not recommended to drain Li batts to 0%. and conditioning is not necessary or recomended.

 

[digitalfx]

27 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

Hi all, I must say that my M11 works well so there is no real reason to join into that discussion unless I take the thread title seriosly.

There is something that upsets me:

All my shots I have GPS tagged. I use the GEOTAGR App.

Now I realize that all my M11 have a GPS Tag even though there is no sensor metering this. As a matter of fact the location is always 000.000E and 000.000W.

Why is there a tag at all? As a consequence in Lightroom my App does not work any more. I cannot understand why Leico in the EXIF Data puts in a Tag at all.

I assume because GPS is coming soon via Fotos app. You might try reporting the issue to GEOTAGR as well.

[mon10a]

14 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

Its a Lithium Ion battery, which doesnt like to be treated like this

But seriously, its normally not recommended to drain Li batts to 0%. and conditioning is not necessary or recomended.

 

You are right; I stand corrected. (But it still helped with my M10!?? Perhaps that battery just started working better with more use?)

[M11 for me]

vor einer Stunde schrieb digitalfx:

I assume because GPS is coming soon via Fotos app. You might try reporting the issue to GEOTAGR as well.

The point is that I delete all 00000 Tags from my shots. But then in Lightroom Map the tagging of the fotographs does not work anymore. Why the hell does Leica put 00000:00000p into the Exif?

Edited January 23, 2022 by M10 for me

[stevieg]

 

On 1/20/2022 at 2:17 PM, opera207 said:

fn button on the left is ok, the top fn and back wheel press buttons have malfunction, they might work fine even with ten+ clicks then miss one or two clicks. Situation on my m11 is worse, nearly 4/10 of the clicks on the back wheel are missed.

On 1/20/2022 at 2:25 PM, opera207 said:

But strangely, many m11 work fine. if it’s a software problem, it should be shown on all cameras.

I tried slow down my operation, rest the camera and click slowly, it still has malfunction.

Also I appointed same function to the top and back wheel buttons, the frequencies of malfunction are different.

So I think it might be a hardware problem.

On 1/20/2022 at 2:42 PM, Tailwagger said:

Not strange at all.  There are hundreds of combinations of software options and modes. That's the nature of bugs, they are corner cases that eluded testing. One could make exactly the opposite assertion. If it's a problem with a physical switch, it should fail permanently, not be intermittent. And what are the odds that multiple buttons of completely different types on multiple cameras are all failing intermittently.  So not to me, no.  This reeks of a software problem. 

I too have this problem with my black M11. The top fn button and the push click on the scroll wheel will work intermittently at best to 2-3/10 short clicks.

(For info: I have the top Fn button set for self timer on/off and the rear scroll button click set for focus aid/magnification view)

HOWEVER: when I long press, they NEVER FAIL to bring up the options list for either button!

I was trying to work out whether this was more likely a software or hardware problem. (This goes out to all you electronic/software/engineering bods!) I'm just a humble "human skeletal repair mechanic!"

If the software for monitoring the short/long press was somehow "buggy" then that could account for the issues. So if it used some sort of scanning timer that monitored how long the button was pressed, then it may not time/count/register a short press such that it then fails to bring up the chosen function on screen correctly. Conversely, if the hardware had a loose/poor connection issue for either button, then the long press would also be an intermittent problem, which it doesn't seem to be. Problem is, pressing for longer could just enable an intermittent contact to MAKE contact long enough for the maestro processor timing clock to register the fact that the button is being pressed! However, as I mentioned above, the long press ALWAYS without fail, brings up the options list for the short press. 

I just can't get the short press to register and bring up the function reliably.

I'm still confused! I think I'll have a chat with my dealer this week. 

 

[stevieg]

Sorry, just realised this has been discussed in another specific thread regarding the buttons.

Mods, if you want to move it there, please feel free to do so.

[Tailwagger]

20 minutes ago, stevieg said:

was trying to work out whether this was more likely a software or hardware problem.

see my post here:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=328466&content_commentid=4365111

 

[M11 for me]

I have a second little problem with my M11: When I go through my images on the memory card on the back screen, then I have to press the direction pad in order to scroll forwards or backwards. How do you see this? I think that the clicks have to be much too short to go just to the NEXT image. If I am a small bit too long then several pictures scroll through. With the M10 this was never any problem.

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[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

I have a second little problem with my M11: When I go through my images on the memory card on the back screen, then I have to press the direction pad in order to scroll forwards or backwards. How do you see this? I think that the clicks have to be much too short to go just to the NEXT image. If I am a small bit too long then several pictures scroll through. With the M10 this was never any problem.

I do not notice any issues on my M11. The direction pad clicks are working well.