"Procedure" ;)

[frame-it]

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A Pal posted this on Instagram, thought id share it here, love the last sentence > Even after 100 years, cameras haven't made much progress, except for "procedure".

もっとも使いにくいライカ』
手元にあるこのカメラは、1928年製のライカB型（本国ドイツでは、Ⅰ型コンパー付という）の後期モデルである。購入した浅草のHカメラの話では、前モデルA型から転用したものではないかとのこと。
オールドカメラには様々な作法があるが、フィルム巻き上げとシャッターチャージが別個になっているこのカメラを使うには、①フィルムを巻き上げる、②距離を設定、③絞りを設定、④レンズ内のシャッターをチャージ、⑤チャージを解除して撮影、という多くの手順を踏む。
露出計がないだけでも大変なのに、楽ちんなデジカメに慣れた我々にはとても厄介なカメラだろう。このB型で唯一誇れるのは、低速シャッタースピードがはじめて使えるようになった点だろう。それにしても、90年以上前に作られたこのカメラでも、今のフィルムでそこそこの写真が撮れる。
100年経っても、「作法」を除けば、カメラはそれほど進歩していない。　

 

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[jaapv]

I fear that my Chinese is non-existent...  

[alphonse2501]

This is Japanese.

I think the modern equivalent of Leica I compur is Rollei 35/35S. A little more compact and has lighter meter (an option).

[zeitz]

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I fear that my Chinese is non-existent...

But Google Translate's Japanese is pretty good.  Just copy the text and paste it into Google Translate.

[jaapv]

Ah - Japanese - just goes to show my expertise...😞

[PG Black nickel]

deepl is even better for translation!

[luigi bertolotti]

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3 hours ago, alphonse2501 said:

This is Japanese.

I think the modern equivalent of Leica I compur is Rollei 35/35S. A little more compact and has lighter meter (an option).

... and they share also one brand name (at least, my Rollei 35 has "made in Germany by Rollei-Compur-Gossen-Zeiss" .. an engraving that takes almost all the body length 😎 ) 

Edited December 22, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[Ambro51]

Very Nice to see a Model B outfitted for battle!  I’d never noticed the iris opened to f 2.9.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Ambro51

[jerzy]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Ambro51:

I’d never noticed the iris opened to f 2.9.

Compur shutter is not like used by Leitz, must have been replaced, there are few other details that are different than by Leica. Camera producer must have been marked in the upper part of the shutter, above the lens, just 2 screws remained. There were not too many producers that had lenses with opening up to 2,9 and were using this size of Compur shutter, should be possible to identify where the shutter was from

[jerzy]

how possible that I did not notice it before....

Not only shutter is not of Leica type, the whole camera seem to be non-original Compur. The lens itself has a optic mount used for third party cameras with Elmar and the camera itself seem to be overworked IA. It could very welll be working camera even with film transport working in typical Leica Compur manner but this is not original Compur Leica. Curious what is the serial number. All Compur Leicas have a release button of mushroom type and a cutout in film counter, see below samples of very early and very late Compur

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There are few more details that could possibly identify this camera originating from IA, but the photo does not allow me to be 100% sure.
And this is mopt probably how this was done - original shutter from IA has been removed and in existing holes film counter has been added. 2-3 gears underneath couple it with film transport. However in original Compur film counter is positioned a bit  to the wind knob and this is one reason why the cutout in film dial is needed. Ambro - what do you think?

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by jerzy

[willeica]

1 hour ago, jerzy said:

The lens itself has a optic mount used for third party cameras with Elmar and the camera itself seem to be overworked IA.

I have quite a few 5cm Leitz Elmars in Compur Mounts on other camera makes, particularly Nagel,  and this looks like one of them. Thiele lists the lens in his book on Leitz lenses and the manufacturers to whom they were sent. I cannot read the SN on the lens here, but if somebody provides it , I can check it with Thiele's list. They are all pretty much the same, but there can be issues about changing a Meyer, Zeiss or a Schneider lens for a Leitz lens in order to enhance the value of a camera. They have to be mounted correctly to avoid out of focus pictures.

The Kochmann Korelle K is, however, quite different as the Leitz Elmar 3.5cm lens it carries has its own miniature aperture mechanism. When I bought one last year it had the incorrect lens, a Leitz 5cm Elmar like the one shown above, but by a minor miracle I managed to source the correct lens. The Compur shutters/mounts were made by F Deckel for many different manufacturers, but, apart from the Kochmann Korelle K and the Compur B and one or two others,  they are largely the same thing despite the markings. I even have them with Kodak markings which derived from Nagel's involvement with Kodak. A release mechanism had to be added to the Compur B as Jerzy has noted. 

In a sense, though, the Compur shutter/mount ( and similar ones by other manufacturers) was an early universal mount within the German camera industry, particularly the many companies based in and around Dresden.  I have dial set examples going back to the early 1920s, long before the Compur B appeared. I am doing a Zoom talk on Compur shutters/mounts for the Photographic Collectors Club of Great Britain on 30th January next. My purpose there will be to learn more about the Compur from the wonderful experts they have in the society. There is a story there that has not been fully written, in English at any rate.

William 

[pgk]

11 hours ago, Al Brown said:

A funny gentleman... my fav sentence is "for those of us who are accustomed to easy digital cameras, this is a very troublesome camera".
I would say the progress of the last 100 years is huge though.

The reverse could be better though: "for those of us who are accustomed to early Leica film cameras, digital cameras are no trouble".

[wizard]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

I fear that my Chinese is non-existent...  

That's why he translated the relevant sentence for you 🙂.

[pgk]

1 hour ago, jerzy said:

Not only shutter is not of Leica type, the whole camera seem to be non-original Compur. The lens itself has a optic mount used for third party cameras with Elmar and the camera itself seem to be overworked IA. It could very welll be working camera even with film transport working in typical Leica Compur manner but this is not original Compur Leica.

Perhaps a 'custom' built working camera for someone who wants a working rather than original camera? As such it looks like a good solution, although Compur shutters can be tricky to maintain I believe, with no parts availability. This might of course explain why it has been changed.

What sort of Compur was fitted to the early microscope attachments I wonder - they seem fairly common and low priced.

Edited December 23, 2021 by pgk
punctuation

[pippy]

21 hours ago, frame-it said:

...love the last sentence > Even after 100 years, cameras haven't made much progress, except for "procedure"...

I'm not so sure about that. Having a portable telephone and access to the internet installed in practically every camera marks quite some...erm...change.

I, too, would be intereted to know the serial number of the "Model B". Very curious conversion which appears to be well executed all things considered.

Philip.

[frame-it]

13 minutes ago, pippy said:

I'm not so sure about that. Having a portable telephone and access to the internet installed in practically every camera marks quite some...erm...change.

I, too, would be intereted to know the serial number of the "Model B". Very curious conversion which appears to be well executed all things considered.

Philip.

i think his point was, its a simple process to take photos, without all the frills of today.

[pippy]

14 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i think his point was, its a simple process to take photos, without all the frills of today.

I know. I wasn't being 100% serious. That was partly why I substituted 'change' for 'progress'.

My day-to-day camera - an M-D Typ-262 - works, essentially, in exactly the same way as the 'Null-Serie' & Leica 1 apart from it capturing images on an SD card instead of on film. Just ISO ('set' mentally on the earlier camera); Shutter-Speed; Aperture; Focus. Nothing else can be set and there is, therefore, nothing fundamentally different between shooting with these two cameras designed - in principle - around 100 years apart just like he stated in his post.

Philip.

Edited December 23, 2021 by pippy

[frame-it]

4 hours ago, jerzy said:

how possible that I did not notice it before....

Not only shutter is not of Leica type, the whole camera seem to be non-original Compur. The lens itself has a optic mount used for third party cameras with Elmar and the camera itself seem to be overworked IA. It could very welll be working camera even with film transport working in typical Leica Compur manner but this is not original Compur Leica. Curious what is the serial number. All Compur Leicas have a release button of mushroom type and a cutout in film counter, see below samples of very early and very late Compur

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There are few more details that could possibly identify this camera originating from IA, but the photo does not allow me to be 100% sure.
And this is mopt probably how this was done - original shutter from IA has been removed and in existing holes film counter has been added. 2-3 gears underneath couple it with film transport. However in original Compur film counter is positioned a bit  to the wind knob and this is one reason why the cutout in film dial is needed. Ambro - what do you think?

 

i asked him, he has just replied:

Serial number :
compur lens → 102905 Elmar50mm F3.5
camera → 16483 modification from typeA
 

[willeica]

31 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i asked him, he has just replied:

Serial number :
compur lens → 102905 Elmar50mm F3.5
camera → 16483 modification from typeA
 

According to Thiele 102905 was part of a batch of 2929 lenses which was produced in 1932 for the Nagel Pupille.

16483 would have been a Model I from 1929. The rim set Compur Bs were produced in small numbers between 1928 and 1941. 209 were produced in 1929.

I believe that this was a I Model A from 1929 which has been modified to take a Compur/Lens combination from a Nagel Pupille.

You can always check with the archives at info@leica-camera.com, which should probably confirm that this camera started life as a I Model A.

William 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by willeica

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Hallo,

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[luigi bertolotti]

7 hours ago, jerzy said:

Compur shutter is not like used by Leitz, must have been replaced, there are few other details that are different than by Leica. Camera producer must have been marked in the upper part of the shutter, above the lens, just 2 screws remained. There were not too many producers that had lenses with opening up to 2,9 and were using this size of Compur shutter, should be possible to identify where the shutter was from

Yes, many 5cm 2,9 existed (Schneider, Cassar & Others) ... this one is from a Certa Dollina... the plate with f stops values is of course very easy to dismount/remount

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