JPEG Monochrome on M cameras

[hirohhhh]

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I always had set JPEG to Monochrome on all my previous non-M cameras to see on LCD and EVF in B&W to be able to better compose and not be distracted by colors. That's one of the first things I did on my new M camera, but then I realize I'm using OVF most of the time, and turn on LCD just to check the exposure and then turn it off while shooting. How many of you use Monochrome JPEG setting on M and how useful do you find it on rangefinder cameras like M?

[Sailronin]

Since you're looking through a viewfinder not an EV there is no advantage to setting the camera to monochrome.

[jslabovitz]

I do.

I use an M10-D with the EVF attachment. For me, setting monochrome/JPEG mode is helpful for visualizing how the scene will look in B&W.

I do my basic composition & focusing with the rangefinder, then shift my eye up to the EVF to look at framing, contrast, etc. If it looks good, I click the shutter to take the shot; if it doesn't, I shift in minor ways while still looking at the EVF, or move back to the rangefinder if I've decided to change the framing in major ways.

It works quite well for my purposes.

[Sailronin]

Sorry, never had an M with an EVF. 

[KFo]

I run mono JPG all the time.  Not for the LCD view, I am 99% on the rangefinder or a hotshot mounted viewfinder, but because I often just want a BW JPG as a starting point.

[cirke]

I always set jpg to mono on all the cameras I have or had , on M I never use the RF

[jaapv]

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Which begs the question why use a rangefinder camera at all…

[cirke]

17 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Which begs the question why use a rangefinder camera at all…

For the lenses only + the size,  aesthetics and simplicity of the body

[jaapv]

The lenses argument has been largely resolved by the newest sensors in SL2S, Panasonic S series (BSI with thin filters) and the higher quality of SL and TL lenses compared to M lenses.

[cirke]

no thanks ! I sold my SL2  , for that price and size I can get an Hasselblad X1D 2

for M lenses we need  a small size M mount body  and nothing else

Edited November 11, 2021 by cirke

[erniethemilk]

So are you guys shooting RAW and converting or RAW & JPG with the intention of using the JPG with the RAW file as a back up, or simply viewing the image in camera as a black and white image?

[jslabovitz]

I'm mostly using this technique to visualize the scene as B&W in the field.

I don't really care about the JPG file, and I'd prefer it not being saved at all, but I don't see a way around that. So I just ignore those -- or really, let Lightroom ignore them, as it seems to understand that the JPG is a 'proof' version of the RAW file.

When I started using this technique, I did spend some time building a Lightroom preset to convert a color DNG file to a B&W image that looks mostly like the JPG. This is convenient, but I'm not totally wedded to the look, and I often end up further modifying an image as needed.

[KFo]

27 minutes ago, erniethemilk said:

So are you guys shooting RAW and converting or RAW & JPG with the intention of using the JPG with the RAW file as a back up, or simply viewing the image in camera as a black and white image?

 

I shoot RAW + JPG (monochrome).  I like having the monochrome image available for chimping occasionally and I do use the JPG directly as B&W image.  The RAW file is for color if I choose to go that direction and also for backup to the JPG B&W if I can't get what I want out of the JPG.  Most of the time the JPGs are just fine.

[cirke]

38 minutes ago, erniethemilk said:

So are you guys shooting RAW and converting or RAW & JPG with the intention of using the JPG with the RAW file as a back up, or simply viewing the image in camera as a black and white image?

only to see in black and white

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

The lenses argument has been largely resolved by the newest sensors in SL2S, Panasonic S series (BSI with thin filters) and the higher quality of SL and TL lenses compared to M lenses.

Kolari has measured S1R's sensor cover glass thickness to be 1.45mm (Nikon Z 7 has 1.1mm). That is a bit less than Sony, but still quite thick. Sean Reid confirms that S1R is not a great camera for RF lenses. 

Why I prefer using M10 to SL2 when shooting with EVF:
- better match for M lenses
- tilting viewfinder
- more compact
- auto magnification 

Why I prefer using SL2 when shooting M lenses with EVF:
- IBIS

Of course, with M10, I can use the OVF, but for some, that does not seem relevant.

 

[Jeff S]

Decades with b/w film never required a monochrome viewfinder. Same with my digital Ms; always RF, DNG only. Don’t own the accessory EVF. With my SL2, also just DNG. Works for me.

Jeff

[jslabovitz]

@Jeff S, It's not so much that I 'require' a monochrome viewfinder -- more that the B&W view in my EVF (and remember I'm using an M10-D without a rear LCD) gives me more to consider when I'm composing a shot.

30 years ago, I picked up a Rolleiflex TLR in a camera shop in Seattle. I was immediately entranced by the waist-level viewfinder: huge, square, reversed left-to-right, luminous with strange and beautiful light, and with a gorgeous depth of field from the f3.5 lens. The view through that camera wasn't 'required,' but I bought the camera and it totally changed my outlook on photography. My photographs *notably* improved.

I'm a firm believer that one's choice of tools affects the way we approach the world. There is no neutral technology; everything has an effect, and consciously choosing tools is important. For me, the B&W view through the little EVF on top of my M10-D allows me to see the world in a different way, and one that seems to make a positive difference in the resulting images.

Edited November 11, 2021 by jslabovitz
clarify

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Kolari has measured S1R's sensor cover glass thickness to be 1.45mm (Nikon Z 7 has 1.1mm). That is a bit less than Sony, but still quite thick. Sean Reid confirms that S1R is not a great camera for RF lenses. 

Why I prefer using M10 to SL2 when shooting with EVF:
- better match for M lenses
- tilting viewfinder
- more compact
- auto magnification 

Why I prefer using SL2 when shooting M lenses with EVF:
- IBIS

Of course, with M10, I can use the OVF, but for some, that does not seem relevant.

 

My experience with Panasonic is limited to the  S5 which is supposed to have a thin cover glass and no AA filter. However, I think that the shallow well depth of BSI sensors is of more importance. In general, it seems that high resolution cameras like S1R and SL2R have more trouble with shallow angles. I put that down to the smaller physical size of the sensels, which is conductive to crosstalk.

[Jeff S]

22 minutes ago, jslabovitz said:

@Jeff S, It's not so much that I 'require' a monochrome viewfinder -- more that the B&W view in my EVF (and remember I'm using an M10-D without a rear LCD) gives me more to consider when I'm composing a shot.

30 years ago, I picked up a Rolleiflex TLR in a camera shop in Seattle. I was immediately entranced by the waist-level viewfinder: huge, square, reversed left-to-right, luminous with strange and beautiful light, and with a gorgeous depth of field from the f3.5 lens. The view through that camera wasn't 'required,' but I bought the camera and it totally changed my outlook on photography. My photographs *notably* improved.

I'm a firm believer that one's choice of tools affects the way we approach the world. There is no neutral technology; everything has an effect, and consciously choosing tools is important. For me, the B&W view through the little EVF on top of my M10-D allows me to see the world in a different way, and one that seems to make a positive difference in the resulting images.

We’re all different.  I’ve shot with formats ranging from 35mm (and smaller) to 4x5 and 8x10, and most everything in between, using 11 different brands.  LF viewing definitely improved my overall compositional skills. But I’ve used M bodies since the early 80’s, now including the M10, M Monochrom and M10 Monochrom, using 28/35/50 focal lengths, always using RF. Whatever suits; no right or wrong.

Jeff
 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Jeff S

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[jaapv]

46 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Decades with b/w film never required a monochrome viewfinder. Same with my digital Ms; always RF, DNG only. Don’t own the accessory EVF. With my SL2, also just DNG. Works for me.

Jeff

I find it quite counterproductive. A monochrome image is essentially different from a colour one. How can you judge whther somebody wearing red clothes is upsetting the impact of your photograph? And it can - bright coulours draw the eye. I do think it is wise to set an EVF to B&W when the intention is to convert the image.