Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

[ramarren]

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My old Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH is a very nice size normal lens (and I bought it when it was about the same price as a new ZEISS Biogon T* 35mm f/2 ZM Lens). It performs very nicely on APS-C format; haven't tested with the Pixii yet. Either would be great. I suspect the latest Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f/2 Aspherical type II would also be a fine performer, at a bit less than the Zeiss ZM Biogons.  

G

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[loloboubou1]

1 hour ago, ramarren said:

My old Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH is a very nice size normal lens (and I bought it when it was about the same price as a new ZEISS Biogon T* 35mm f/2 ZM Lens). It performs very nicely on APS-C format; haven't tested with the Pixii yet. Either would be great. I suspect the latest Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f/2 Aspherical type II would also be a fine performer, at a bit less than the Zeiss ZM Biogons.  

G

Trust me ... The Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.0 35 is a very very great performer. 

 

[lct]

Just now, loloboubou1 said:

Trust me ... The Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.0 35 is a very very great performer. 

Larger lens though (49mm filter). How much does it block the Pixii's viewfinder with lens hood on? Just curious.

[ramarren]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Larger lens though (49mm filter). How much does it block the Pixii's viewfinder with lens hood on? Just curious.

Given that the lens has a 58mm diameter and the lens hood is similar to the hood on the MATE, it probably cuts a swath across the rangefinder patch. I found it better to remove the standard MATE hood, and if I bought the lens, I'd buy a trimmer, slightly shorter hood.

G

[pop]

16 minutes ago, ramarren said:

I'd buy a trimmer, slightly shorter hood.

Given that the lens has to illuminate a smaller sensor, you could opt for a narrower hood.

For instance, I use the rubber hood of the 90mm Elmar-C on my 40 mm Summicron-C without any vignetting at all. I tested it with a photograph of an evenly lit white wall.

[lct]

Just now, pop said:

I use the rubber hood of the 90mm Elmar-C on my 40 mm Summicron-C without any vignetting at all.

Same on digital CL and Epson R-D1.

[loloboubou1]

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Il y a 7 heures, lct a dit :

Larger lens though (49mm filter). How much does it block the Pixii's viewfinder with lens hood on? Just curious.

This is a great performer ... on the pixii !

[ramarren]

2 hours ago, pop said:

Given that the lens has to illuminate a smaller sensor, you could opt for a narrower hood.

For instance, I use the rubber hood of the 90mm Elmar-C on my 40 mm Summicron-C without any vignetting at all. I tested it with a photograph of an evenly lit white wall.

Yes, for sure. Of course, that implies that one has a selection of hoods to work with and test. I do, not everyone does...  

G

[ramarren]

Back to lens evaluation...  

Another walk with the Pixii, this time testing the Voigtländer Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1 with its sensor. I also fitted a Ricoh GV2 28mm accessory viewfinder for framing purposes ... It's a pretty close match to a 21mm lens on APS-C format, and is compact and handy in size. 

I decided to simplify operations as much as possible ... I set ISO 320, f/3.5, and Aperture exposure automation with the Auto-L lock enabled. I powered up the camera when I left on the walk and carried a spare battery. WiFi was turned off. 

The walking route I chose is normally about an hour and a half walking time ... I didn't shut the camera down between shots because I was stopping about every two minutes to make another exposure. The first battery lasted for about an hour and 50 shots used this way, the second battery was half depleted in the last 38 minutes of the walk with another 29 shots. If there's one thing I would stress to Pixii SAS, it would be to improve the power management/efficiency so that batteries to last longer in use. Similar walks and power treated the same way with other cameras at my disposal (Leica CL, Hasselblad 907x, Light L16) will deplete a fully charged battery by 1/3 for the entire walk. 

The Pixii sensor stack must be rather different from the Leica CL or Hasselblad 907x sensor stack: The Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1 displays a good bit of edge/corner color shifting on the Pixii sensor where it shows virtually none on either of those other two cameras (and the Hasselblad sensor is 33x44 mm, even larger than FF format). I've edited out the color shift in rendering this set of photos. It's usable but I'd have to call the Color-Skopar 21mm a difficult optical match to the Pixii sensor, same as the MS Optical Aporia 24mm f/2. 

As I've seen in photos prior to this set, the Pixii sensor does capture high resolution/high dynamic range data that can produce some very lovely color tonal renderings.  

I also ran into two other issues this time out: Switching batteries after one hour, many of the configuration settings I'd made at the start of the walk were reset to the defaults ... for instance, the ISO setting went from 320 to 160, the Auto-L lock feature was disabled. This tells me that after changing batteries, it is a good idea to check your settings and be sure that the camera is set the way you want.

The other issue is the haptics of the shutter button: the 'click over' point that initiates an exposure and the quiet acknowledgement beep that an exposure has been made are very light and quiet ... in walking about outdoors, with traffic nearby and/or wearing head phones to listen to music or a book reading, it is hard to sense when an exposure has actually been made. I lost several exposures because it wasn't clear whether the exposure had been made... If you're using an accessory finder, the other indicator (a brief flash of the frame lines at the end of exposure) is invisible, and the frame counter seems to only show for a few seconds and then disappear. I would suggest a shutter release that has a little more significant 'click over' action and a persistent frame counter on the top display or in the viewfinder would help in this regard. 

Finally, a few photos:

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Tree Arch - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

Our Lady, Missile - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

The Bronze Horse - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

Tree Against Sky - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

Sidewalk Ornamented - Santa Clara 2022

 

Sidewalk Swimming - Santa Clara 2022

 

Tree In Leafed Grove - Santa Clara 2022

 

Sidewalk Tar Structures - Santa Clara 2022

 

Paychic - Santa Clara 2022

 

Doorway With Stair - Santa Clara 2022

 

White BMW - Santa Clara 2022

Utility Box - Santa Clara 2022

And that concludes my Pixii testing and evaluation. I've made 1000 or so exposures with the Pixii, testing several of my lenses such that I know what to expect from it, and I decided that for all the good things I like about it, there are enough negatives that other options work better for my use and my photography. I'll write that up in a separate post later. 

That said, I think the Pixii is a fine camera and has some unique qualities/capabilities. I laud the efforts of David Barth and his team for producing it, and I know that some of the reasons why I decided to choose other options are my personal desires/needs, irrelevant to others' needs and working practices. I will continue to follow Pixii SAS and the Pixii camera to stay in touch with its development ... A few changes to hardware and/or software and I might find myself buying another one ... and keeping it!  

Enjoy, G

[tsleica]

I told ya...lol...

[ramarren]

1 hour ago, tsleica said:

I told ya...lol...

Told me what, precisely?  You mean that baseless BS you were jabbering without ever seeing a Pixii? I've tested the camera thoroughly now and it's an excellent camera, it simply isn't the correct excellent camera for what I want. 

G

Edited April 30, 2022 by ramarren

[tsleica]

Quote

it simply isn't the correct excellent camera for what I want

Bought on spec..rejected in person..

Enough said..

Quote

You mean that baseless BS you were jabbering without ever seeing a Pixii?

Same as buying it..sight unseen..and spouting "baseless BS you were jabbering"..before..fanboy purchase..

And then..quick as a bunny..right back to France..

That didnt take long..haha..

And 3K..right back in pocket..lol..

All whilst demoaning..selling of Leica MD..

Shoulda got a V8..

Edited April 30, 2022 by tsleica

[ramarren]

35 minutes ago, tsleica said:

Bought on spec..rejected in person..

Enough said..

Same as buying it..sight unseen..and spouting "baseless BS you were jabbering"..before..fanboy purchase..

And then..quick as a bunny..right back to France..

That didnt take long..haha..

And 3K..right back in pocket..lol..

All whilst demoaning..selling of Leica MD..

Shoulda got a V8..

It's worthless talking to you. Bye.

G

 

[Viv]

18 hours ago, ramarren said:

Back to lens evaluation...  

Another walk with the Pixii, this time testing the Voigtländer Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1 with its sensor. I also fitted a Ricoh GV2 28mm accessory viewfinder for framing purposes ... It's a pretty close match to a 21mm lens on APS-C format, and is compact and handy in size. 

I decided to simplify operations as much as possible ... I set ISO 320, f/3.5, and Aperture exposure automation with the Auto-L lock enabled. I powered up the camera when I left on the walk and carried a spare battery. WiFi was turned off. 

The walking route I chose is normally about an hour and a half walking time ... I didn't shut the camera down between shots because I was stopping about every two minutes to make another exposure. The first battery lasted for about an hour and 50 shots used this way, the second battery was half depleted in the last 38 minutes of the walk with another 29 shots. If there's one thing I would stress to Pixii SAS, it would be to improve the power management/efficiency so that batteries to last longer in use. Similar walks and power treated the same way with other cameras at my disposal (Leica CL, Hasselblad 907x, Light L16) will deplete a fully charged battery by 1/3 for the entire walk. 

The Pixii sensor stack must be rather different from the Leica CL or Hasselblad 907x sensor stack: The Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1 displays a good bit of edge/corner color shifting on the Pixii sensor where it shows virtually none on either of those other two cameras (and the Hasselblad sensor is 33x44 mm, even larger than FF format). I've edited out the color shift in rendering this set of photos. It's usable but I'd have to call the Color-Skopar 21mm a difficult optical match to the Pixii sensor, same as the MS Optical Aporia 24mm f/2. 

As I've seen in photos prior to this set, the Pixii sensor does capture high resolution/high dynamic range data that can produce some very lovely color tonal renderings.  

I also ran into two other issues this time out: Switching batteries after one hour, many of the configuration settings I'd made at the start of the walk were reset to the defaults ... for instance, the ISO setting went from 320 to 160, the Auto-L lock feature was disabled. This tells me that after changing batteries, it is a good idea to check your settings and be sure that the camera is set the way you want.

The other issue is the haptics of the shutter button: the 'click over' point that initiates an exposure and the quiet acknowledgement beep that an exposure has been made are very light and quiet ... in walking about outdoors, with traffic nearby and/or wearing head phones to listen to music or a book reading, it is hard to sense when an exposure has actually been made. I lost several exposures because it wasn't clear whether the exposure had been made... If you're using an accessory finder, the other indicator (a brief flash of the frame lines at the end of exposure) is invisible, and the frame counter seems to only show for a few seconds and then disappear. I would suggest a shutter release that has a little more significant 'click over' action and a persistent frame counter on the top display or in the viewfinder would help in this regard. 

Finally, a few photos:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Tree Arch - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

Our Lady, Missile - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

The Bronze Horse - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

Tree Against Sky - Santa Clara 2022
 

 

Sidewalk Ornamented - Santa Clara 2022

 

Sidewalk Swimming - Santa Clara 2022

 

Tree In Leafed Grove - Santa Clara 2022

 

Sidewalk Tar Structures - Santa Clara 2022

 

Paychic - Santa Clara 2022

 

Doorway With Stair - Santa Clara 2022

 

White BMW - Santa Clara 2022

Utility Box - Santa Clara 2022

And that concludes my Pixii testing and evaluation. I've made 1000 or so exposures with the Pixii, testing several of my lenses such that I know what to expect from it, and I decided that for all the good things I like about it, there are enough negatives that other options work better for my use and my photography. I'll write that up in a separate post later. 

That said, I think the Pixii is a fine camera and has some unique qualities/capabilities. I laud the efforts of David Barth and his team for producing it, and I know that some of the reasons why I decided to choose other options are my personal desires/needs, irrelevant to others' needs and working practices. I will continue to follow Pixii SAS and the Pixii camera to stay in touch with its development ... A few changes to hardware and/or software and I might find myself buying another one ... and keeping it!  

Enjoy, G

Thank you for your very informative and useful comments.

As I have said, I was undecided about buying a Pixii. Your experience with limited battery life and the loss of settings during battery changes have helped me to decide not to buy the camera.

I have made this decision with some regret, because I really like the concept and design.

If battery performance is improved in the next version, I will reconsider my decision.

[Chris W]

21 hours ago, ramarren said:

 

The Pixii sensor stack must be rather different from the Leica CL or Hasselblad 907x sensor stack: The Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1 displays a good bit of edge/corner color shifting on the Pixii sensor where it shows virtually none on either of those other two cameras (and the Hasselblad sensor is 33x44 mm, even larger than FF format). I've edited out the color shift in rendering this set of photos. It's usable but I'd have to call the Color-Skopar 21mm a difficult optical match to the Pixii sensor, same as the MS Optical Aporia 24mm f/2. 

 

 

I had a Voigtlander Color Skopar 21mm f4 and tried it with my Sigma FP and M8. Very obvious colour shift, purple fringing etc.

I sold the lens as it wasn't the same standard as my other lenses.

I agree, Pixii images look great and all power to them. It wouldn't be the camera for me, especially with the need for ultra wide lenses for my preferred use.

[MBSweden]

5 hours ago, Viv said:

and the loss of settings during battery changes

There is already a firmware fix for this. Not sure if it’s still in the developer channel. If so it’s probably in the release soon.

Regarding the battery I’m not sure what the issue could be. Mine lasts all day depending on how I set it up. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by MBSweden

[ramarren]

3 hours ago, Chris W said:

I had a Voigtlander Color Skopar 21mm f4 and tried it with my Sigma FP and M8. Very obvious colour shift, purple fringing etc.

I sold the lens as it wasn't the same standard as my other lenses.

I agree, Pixii images look great and all power to them. It wouldn't be the camera for me, especially with the need for ultra wide lenses for my preferred use.

I had the original M-mount Color-Skopar 21mm f/4 too, and it similarly didn't perform well enough on Ricoh GXR-M, M9, and M-P 240. However, this lens has been recomputed and the new Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 V1 performs very well on the Leica CL (and M10 from others' testimonial reports), which is the same format as the Pixii. On the CL, it produces superb quality with no color shifting... 

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I've used it on film as well, but haven't yet processed the film; I expect it to be an excellent performer based on what I've seen with it. It is simply a poor match to the Pixii sensor. 

G

[ramarren]

6 hours ago, Viv said:

Thank you for your very informative and useful comments.

As I have said, I was undecided about buying a Pixii. Your experience with limited battery life and the loss of settings during battery changes have helped me to decide not to buy the camera.

I have made this decision with some regret, because I really like the concept and design.

If battery performance is improved in the next version, I will reconsider my decision.

Do be sure that this was something of a stress test on this walk: I was intent on making an exposure every couple of minutes and not letting the camera sleep to probe the limits. I find the limits disappointingly low. In more normal use, the camera would be powered off after an exposure and powered back on for the next one, and I would normally have made something like 10-20 shots in this long a walk, not 75 or so. So the test exaggerates the power consumption issue; I'm sure in the normal circumstance, the Pixii would have done better on battery life although I cannot say how many exposures it would have achieved. 

I suspect that the Pixii team can improve on this performance even just with software development, so I'll stay tuned to upcoming firmware releases. I'm also sure that the settings problem is just a bug that can be fixed, and a useful workaround is to simply have the Pixii paired to the PIxii app and the app running on your phone, which will refresh the camera regularly and be sure the settings match. 

I specifically did not have the Pixii app running on the phone purely to see what the camera's behavior would be in isolation at this time, with this revision of the firmware.

G

Edited May 1, 2022 by ramarren

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[Ihatecars]

On 4/30/2022 at 7:40 AM, ramarren said:

It's usable but I'd have to call the Color-Skopar 21mm a difficult optical match to the Pixii sensor, same as the MS Optical Aporia 24mm f/2. 

Would you be able to elaborate a bit more on your experience with the MS Optical 24mm on the Pixii?

I placed my order for a Pixii on the 10th of April and was heavily considering the MSO 34mm because of the FOV on an APS-C sensor and the form factor. But if there are heavy compromises due to color cast in the corners, I might have to reconsider.

Also, thank you for your detailed experience with the Pixii. It's very refreshing to hear someone's opinions that has had hands-on experience with he camera. Especially when said opinion is a bit more critical.

[ramarren]

8 hours ago, Ihatecars said:

Would you be able to elaborate a bit more on your experience with the MS Optical 24mm on the Pixii?

I placed my order for a Pixii on the 10th of April and was heavily considering the MSO 34mm because of the FOV on an APS-C sensor and the form factor. But if there are heavy compromises due to color cast in the corners, I might have to reconsider.

Also, thank you for your detailed experience with the Pixii. It's very refreshing to hear someone's opinions that has had hands-on experience with he camera. Especially when said opinion is a bit more critical.

You're welcome. I like to actually try things for myself.  

The MS Optics 24/2 is a very extreme little lens, it color shifts rather severely on the Pixii sensor. Surprising to me, because on the CL's APS-C sensor it shows a bit of light fall-off at openings larger than f/4 but doesn't color shift, and it doesn't color shift on the Hasselblad 907x sensor either. 

Now, that said, I have no idea how the Aporia 24mm optical design compares to the 34mm, or how the latter would behave on the Pixii sensor. My Summilux 35mm doesn't show any color shift, nor did my Pentax-L 43mm. And the Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm doesn't color shift. That's the limit of my observed data. 

G