Should my old 35mm Summaron lens select the 35mm frame lines on an M2

[MikeMyers]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Sixty or so years ago, I acquired my M3 and M2 Leica cameras, but back then I was so used to 50mm from previous experiences that I don't know if I ever used my 35mm lens.  It's a "Summaron  f=3.5cm  1:3.5  Nr. 1181856   Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzler."

Since I started shooting film early this year, I only used the M3.  The M2 sat unused in my desk drawer with my other old cameras.  I decided yesterday I ought to try it out and see how/if it's working - and will almost certainly be sending it to DAG Camera for a "clean and lube", although the only "work" I can see that needs to be done, is to remove some haze in the viewfinder, and fix the damaged vulcanite which is missing a piece directly under the lens.

The reason I'm posting this though, is that when I went outside to take a test photo, the frame line I saw was 50mm.  The lever on the side of the camera will switch the viewfinder between 35, 50, and 90, but this lens doesn't cause the viewfinder to change.  I started thinking that maybe this lens pre-dates the viewfinder design, and mounted a newer 35mm Summilux on the M2 - worked fine, and showed me the 35mm frame lines.

So, my question is whether this lens is older than the M2, and will never automatically select the appropriate frame line for 35mm (which I suspect) or if it needs some kind of adjustment.

(It's irrelevant to my question, but I enjoy the viewfinder of the M3 far more than my M2.  I suppose I could put a 35mm viewfinder up on top, but that's where I now have my Leicameter.)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[a.noctilux]

Mike,

You are right, your Summaron 3.5/3.5cm made 1954, before the launch of M2 in 1957.

If you want to keep it, my suggestion would be kind of sacrilege, when you send for service, ask for adapting the mount to select 35 in place of now 50.

Easy to do ( filing a bit of one claw ), but you are the owner/user to decide.

[lct]

Would you mind to show the flange of your lens?

[madNbad]

If it’s not changing the frame lines on the M2, then it was most likely designed to be used on the M3 with goggles. In the movie “Kong, Skull Island” Brie Larsons’ character uses one, with a MR meter, throughout the movie. You could use it on the M3 and just use the entire finder. This will get you close enough without having to modify the lens.

[MikeMyers]

3 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

If you want to keep it, my suggestion would be kind of sacrilege, when you send for service, ask for adapting the mount to select 35 in place of now 50.

Thank you!  Makes perfect sense.

Sacrilege......    I think I'll leave it as-is - I never used it before, and I don't expect I'll use it much in the future - I'll use my newer and better 35.  Maybe I should buy a IIIf to keep it company.  I always wanted one of those.......      🙂

[MikeMyers]

6 minutes ago, lct said:

Would you mind to show the flange of your lens?

Sure - does this show what you want to see?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Pyrogallol]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have one of that design as well, with the distance engraving at 90 degrees to the usual way. Made before the M2 so the 35mm frame setting had not been invented. I would keep it original because that is the way it was designed. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[lct]

58 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Sure - does this show what you want to see?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I just wanted to check that it is a 50mm flange. You will never use your lens as a 50mm one i guess so i would have it adapted to 35mm if i were in your shoes. I would be probably tempted to do the same fix as below but i have no experience with your lens.

 

[MikeMyers]

Unless it's valuable as a collector's item, I will just leave it sitting along with my other "stuff".  I doubt I will take any photos with it.  I'm not a machinist, and have no desire to start filing on it.  If I don't want to go walking around with my best 35mm Leica lens, I might buy a new brand-x lens from KEH or Camera Quest.  I'd rather have at least an f/2 lens, which might still be light and "fast enough".  Maybe I'll put the lens up for sale in the "classified" section of this forum.

I cleaned the glass on front and back of my viewfinder/rangefinder, but I think it needs an inside cleaning, one more thing I will ask Don to do when/if I ship him the M2.  I'll also ask him to fix or replace the vulcanite - it's annoying to see where its missing.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

...I think I'll leave it as-is - I never used it before, and I don't expect I'll use it much in the future - I'll use my newer and better 35.  Maybe I should buy a IIIf to keep it company.  I always wanted one of those.......      🙂

First-off, Mike, do not underestimate the 35mm f3.5 Summaron! I, too, have a 1954 example (1 150 659) which I've used with my M2 since c.1980 and, after it had a CLA a few years ago, I remembered just what a lovely thing it is. So much so, in fact, that I've not bought another 35 even for use with my digi-M bodies. It is tiny; shares the 'usual' E39 filters and the 12575 clip-on hoods which I favour. Not being one who tends to need a fast lens it does everything I need from a 35.

Before you consign it to the cupboard I'd suggest you take madNbad's advice from post #4 and try it out for yourself using the whole of the VF as a framing guide. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Cue Gratuitous Snap (on the M Monochrom);

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Secondly; I'm sure you realise that it won't fit on a IIIf?......

Philip.

[jankap]

3 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Thank you!  Makes perfect sense.

Sacrilege......    I think I'll leave it as-is - I never used it before, and I don't expect I'll use it much in the future - I'll use my newer and better 35.  Maybe I should buy a IIIf to keep it company.  I always wanted one of those.......      🙂

Your lens has the M bayonet, the IIIf has a thread mount.

[MikeMyers]

Oops, so much for that idea!!!!   One of these days I'll buy a IIIf, maybe.  One more thing to learn.  That list is getting overwhelmingly too long.  I'll just put the old lens back in my drawer for another 60 years, or maybe sell it.  Maybe I'll just give it to Don.

[MikeMyers]

8 minutes ago, pippy said:

Before you consign it to the cupboard I'd suggest you take madNbad's advice from post #4 and try it out for yourself using the whole of the VF as a framing guide. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Sure, why not?  I suspect it has some "haze",  but that's easy enough to test.  I like the size of it, but if I'm walking about in the evening, an f/2 aperture would be more useful for some of the photos I enjoy taking, like walking around in the evening.   I can always move the lens selection lever by hand.  I guess the first thing to do is clean it, followed by taking some photos.  I'll likely find out a week from Monday how well it worked.

I'm stuck at home for another six days (don't ask), so I'm not doing much in way of photography.  Lots of time to learn my new scanner.  

I love your camera - either you did some trickery in Photoshop, or you found a way to make your camera rather unique.  Since the vulcanite on my own M2 is coming off, your photo looks like an inspiration for me to copy.  How did you do it?  Did it come like that from Leica?

[pippy]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

Unless it's valuable as a collector's item...

It might not be a rare 'collectable', Mike, but its a wide-angle Leica lens in M-mount and, as such, will be easy to sell. As these early lenses have been acquiring a bit of a cult following over the last few years it should fetch a fairly decent price on the s/h market. Prices can vary enormously, of course, depending on condition but it's been a long time since I saw a decent copy advertised (here in the UK) for less than  £500 / $700 (and prices are rising).

If you do decide to hang on to it but not use it keeping it in a drawer might not be such a good idea as it may encourage the growth of fungus depending on your weather situation etc.

Philip.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

This is a stellar lens. Sell it to someone who knows and values it.

[pippy]

Just now, MikeMyers said:

I love your camera - either you did some trickery in Photoshop, or you found a way to make your camera rather unique.  Since the vulcanite on my own M2 is coming off, your photo looks like an inspiration for me to copy.  How did you do it?  Did it come like that from Leica?

Thanks for the kind words, Mike! I'll send a PM so as not to derail your thread.

Philip.

 

[MikeMyers]

9 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

This is a stellar lens. Sell it to someone who knows and values it.

I'll try to get it going.  First step is a good cleaning.  When I hold it up, so half of it is seeing the bright daylight coming through my window, the other half of the lens looks a little "foggy".  After 50 or 60 years of no-use, maybe all it needs is a careful cleaning.

I had no idea people liked the lens this much.  "Don't judge a book by its cover."

[MikeMyers]

11 minutes ago, pippy said:

Thanks for the kind words, Mike! I'll send a PM so as not to derail your thread.

Feel free to derail - you won't hear any complaints from me!  Now everyone reading this is going to want to know more......

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MikeMyers]

I read your story - wow!  I guess I'd never get a chance to capture candid photos when everyone came over to ask about my camera!  But the camera does look stunning in that dark red color.  Did you do the replacement yourself?  Where does one buy "coverings" for an old vulcanite leather that has long since started to come apart.  I guess I should look for a thread on this, and if I can't find one, start my own.......

[Capuccino-Muffin]

17 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I'll try to get it going.  First step is a good cleaning.  When I hold it up, so half of it is seeing the bright daylight coming through my window, the other half of the lens looks a little "foggy".  After 50 or 60 years of no-use, maybe all it needs is a careful cleaning.

I had no idea people liked the lens this much.  "Don't judge a book by its cover."

If we had to judge this lens by its cover, it would easily win. It’s made of heavy brass and the construction is next to none! No newer Leica lens can rival the impeccable comstruction.