Is it worth buying analogue in 2021

[spydrxx]

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There are pros and cons of buying a film camera, just as there are for buying a digital camera. IMHO buying a film camera is worth it only if you plan to use it and have the patience and skills to process your own film, as most commercial processing has disappeared from the scene. Film production has certainly changed, but many of us bought (or currently buy) film in quantities to last for many years. So look inward at yourself and make the decision which works best for you.

[earleygallery]

4 hours ago, Reactivestills said:

Hi All,

I will be looking to purchase two of the same body in the coming months. Either M-A/P
 

In your honest opinion is it worth buying a film Leica in 2021/22 - Will Leica cease to care about analogue cameras 

Or am I better holding on for digital and paying double the cost. 
I enjoy both formats but if film processing and sales dwindle in the next 10 years will it be a complete waste of money.

 

Please advise. Thanks 

What do you shoot now? Just film, just digital or both?

I really don't think you need to worry about availability of film, the decision is surely about what you prefer to use for your own purposes.

[ianman]

4 hours ago, Reactivestills said:

I enjoy both formats but if film processing and sales dwindle in the next 10 years will it be a complete waste of money.

Not sure what you mean about processing but film sales seem to be doing the opposite of dwindling. I was talking to the owner of a secondhand photography shop just yesterday, he told me he has never sold so many film bodies as he is now. His son has a shop which sells new photographic equipment and supplies for both digital and film. He told me that they have 10.000 rolls on order and manufacturers can't keep up demand. Dwindling? 

[ianman]

3 hours ago, andrew01 said:

I think there is less risk in buying Leica film cameras than digital.  Digital cameras become obsolete by newer tech within 2 years and then depreciate rapidly.

Risk? This is only really relevant if buying a camera is considered as an investment. Which it shouldn't. And certainly not a digital body.  "Obsolete" has no meaning for the photographer either. If someone buys a camera it obviously has the features she/he needs. Why would those needs change every 2 years?

[Stuart Richardson]

As someone who has worked in the lab end as well, I would say the biggest threat to film is not really on the user side. Lots of people want to use film. The biggest challenge is on the corporate side, followed by the film services side. On the corporate side, modern film is a pretty intensive and finicky manufacturing process. It does not seem to be something that can be done easily on a small scale. We are pretty reliant on Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. Foma is there is well, and there are a few smaller companies, but really the best quality film is from the big three. The demand is still there, but distribution and manufacturing are challenges. Raw material sourcing has been an issue (such as in the decision to discontinue Acros and relaunch it as a product made by Ilford for Fuji). The other big challenge is that film basically went from a ubiquitous service to a niche market, and in smaller markets (like mine here in Iceland, for example), it has been hard to support companies who aim to do it commercially. There is simply not enough volume to do E6 processing in the country of Iceland...not enough people shooting it consistently and going to one place to have it done. So you have to do it by hand and in batches. But no company does it here because it would run at a loss.

Another challenge is in logistics. Right now, shipping companies will no longer ship most chemicals via air due to their hazardous materials policies, so it can be extremely difficult to move chemicals around outside of mainland US or continental Europe. Another would be hazardous materials regulations. Unfortunately, due to an over ambitious environmental regulation here in Iceland, fixer is taxed per liter of DILUTED chemistry. So a 5L tank of rapid fixer that costs 30 euros in Germany costs around 200 euros in Iceland. This makes film processing expensive here, which drives away users. That is probably the point, but you can walk into any grocery store and buy much much more dangerous chemicals for peanuts.

In any case, the hope is that consistent demand from users (which is absolutely there) will enable to find companies a way to keep providing film and processing. But if there are any hiccups, I think it is more likely to come because of external forces on the companies and labs, more than from lack of desire. Another example of this would be dye transfer and ilfochrome...photographers still wanted those processes when they were discontinued, but the companies were unable to produce them in the same way due to environmental considerations, and it was too small of a market to justify reformulating. I am a strong environmentalist, so I am not against these laws, but unfortunately they can sometimes disrupt things because our society is arranged around business...if a business cannot make money doing something, it is unlikely to happen.

[Jon Warwick]

Regarding the environmental aspect, there was this announcement by Fuji re Velvia in the US that I’m sure many already saw  …. I don’t know how specific this issue is for Velvia, rather than E6 generally ?

https://www.fujifilm.com/us/en/business/professional-photography/film/velvia-100

 

[Topsy]

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4 hours ago, andrew01 said:

 Digital cameras become obsolete by newer tech within 2 years and then depreciate rapidly.

Don't tell my M9s that.

[Matlock]

56 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

 as most commercial processing has disappeared from the scene. 

Thankfully that is not the case in the UK.

[250swb]

4 hours ago, Reactivestills said:

Hi All,

I will be looking to purchase two of the same body in the coming months. Either M-A/P
 

In your honest opinion is it worth buying a film Leica in 2021/22 - Will Leica cease to care about analogue cameras 

Or am I better holding on for digital and paying double the cost. 
I enjoy both formats but if film processing and sales dwindle in the next 10 years will it be a complete waste of money.

 

Please advise. Thanks 

If you have to ask don't do it. 

I assume you have used film before, and that you have some M lenses already. But your question sounds like it comes from the dawn of the digital age when film died, then as the undertaker was being called it opened an eye and coughed a bit, then it asked for steak and chips and a pint of lager, it was cured! So film lives on. 

What might not live on for many are the ongoing costs of film and the time it takes up. There are a lot of dabblers in the market at the moment driving camera prices wildly upwards (and the world economy driving silver and hence film prices up) and when they exhaust their enthusiasm those prices will come down. So the question is, are you a long term enthusiast, are two cameras one too many, how about a Voigtlander M mount body instead?

[Herr Barnack]

3 hours ago, tom.w.bn said:

If for some reason there is no film anymore in 10 years, you had 10 years of fun and you have the images you took in 10 years. It's a hobby, not a business investment.

Someone once told me that film is dead and that it wouldn't be long until there is no more film to be purchased anywhere at any price.  I received dreaded information this information in July of 1997.

Today - 24 years later - B&H photo currently has 188 different offerings of 35mm film for sale.  Freestyle Photo has 123 different B&W offerings in 35mm format and 294 offering in B&W chemistry with 41 different options in color chemistry and 93 different alternative process chemicals, 69 offerings in 35mm C-41 and 6 offerings in 35mm E-6. 

Translation:  35mm film based photography is not going to disappear off the face of the earth, particularly 35mm black and white film photography.  B&W film photography has endured for 24 years past the official "Film Is Dead" announcement of 1997; IMHO it will endure for another 24 years.  Digital can pretty much replace color photography.  Black and white is another matter entirely.

If you want a new film M camera, get one.  I had a black paint MP 0.72 for a number of years and it was a great camera so that is what I would recommend.  Also:  Don't overlook older vintage film M cameras like the M3, M4-P and M6.  Leica is not making any more of them and the prices on these cameras have doubled in the last few years. 

Get the vintage film M cameras while you can, before they are selling for $5000 each rather than the current $2000 each - which used to be $800 - $1000 each.  At some point in the future, they will not be available at anything less than obscene prices; it's a supply and demand thing.  These cameras are still repairable and there are a few truly outstanding Leica technicians in the U.S. and in Europe who can breathe new life into a vintage M when it needs some attention.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Matlock]

31 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

 

If you want a new film M camera, get one.  I had a black paint MP 0.72 for a number of years and it was a great camera so that is what I would recommend.  Also:  Don't overlook older vintage film M cameras like the M3, M4-P and M6.  Leica is not making any more of them and the prices on these cameras have doubled in the last few years. 

Get the vintage film M cameras while you can, before they are selling for $5000 each rather than the current $2000 each - which used to be $800 - $1000 each.  At some point in the future, they will not be available at anything less than obscene prices; it's a supply and demand thing.  These cameras are still repairable and there are a few truly outstanding Leica technicians in the U.S. and in Europe who can breathe new life into a vintage M when it needs some attention.

 

 

But steer clear of DS M3s as I have been told mine is unrepairable, SS are OK.

[Leon Berg]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Reactivestills:

Hi All,

I will be looking to purchase two of the same body in the coming months. Either M-A/P
 

In your honest opinion is it worth buying a film Leica in 2021/22 - Will Leica cease to care about analogue cameras 

Or am I better holding on for digital and paying double the cost. 
I enjoy both formats but if film processing and sales dwindle in the next 10 years will it be a complete waste of money.

 

Please advise. Thanks 

Hi. 

I have no evidence for that, but I tend to claim that digital cameras will be more prone to fail and break than any analog camera one day. Of course I do 

understand that some people don't like to take the time to develop or like post processing on the computer because it gives you certain freedom.

I just cant't think under which circumstances I would pay the money, even if I had it, for a digital Leica, except a SL(S)
I don't like the size of the digital M, very easy. It feels to me like a Leica M6/MP on steroids.. 

I love my film Leica.  It has been the best investment in my photography life ever. 

Of course you have to like the process that comes with it.. whether it is to send the negatives to a lab or learn how to do it yourself. 
The approach changed my photographic behavior and my view on photography. It was something I always wanted to do and learn and it took me long to actually daring it. 
Now it feels like I have never done it differently! I truly feel good about it. And along the analog journey you meet so many wonderful people, so many supporting souls that
share the love for something truly special. 

If you're a good photographer I don't care what the medium is you take your photos on, I can understand that as a pro you might need the digital medium for certain freedom
or because it is expected of you.. dunno. 
I will never go back to digital. 

Good luck and enjoy your journey. 

 

[Herr Barnack]

2 minutes ago, Matlock said:

But steer clear of DS M3s as I have been told mine is unrepairable, SS are OK.

@Matlock  Thanks for that information - I didn't know that the DS M3 cameras are no longer repairable.  I would think the issue is a lack of needed parts but maybe it's something else.  Either way, no one needs a $2000 USD paper weight.

[tom.w.bn]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Leon Berg:

I have no evidence for that, but I tend to claim that digital cameras will be more prone to fail and break than any analog camera one day. Of course I do

If it breakes, you throw it away and buy a new one. Try that with a film camera.   🙂

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by tom.w.bn

[Helge]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Matlock:

Thankfully that is not the case in the UK.

Same not in Germany, numerous labs for E6, C41 and a lot of B/W processing.

And besides the well known films from Kodak and Fuji there are numerous other B/W films in Europe available, from Adox, Foma and Ilford.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Helge

[Leon Berg]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb tom.w.bn:

If it brakes, you throw it away and buy a new one. Try that with a film camera.   🙂

 

Excactly 😁
I don't know.. don't want to make it a religion. 
Analog has a special place for me, but it's certainly not only being hipster, nostalgic or living in the past. 
The whole process is full of life. 
Enjoy whichever Leica you have. I enjoyed my 5D Canon so much and very long while traveling the world, it is in my heart. 

But I feel I have "grown" into myself and am doing what I always wanted but had denied for a long time, because the effort is bigger. 

[Reactivestills]

Original post and genuine.

Thanks for the many replies. I have been shooting digital since 2002. Had shot film for 2 yrs and loved it. Feeling having a meter in the MP would be a definite help coming from using an EVF with all controls. 
 

Q: Do you feel since the MP is older and the MA released in 2014 - The MA is better built?

Seems the MP has had a few issues from posts I’ve found on here - What’s your thoughts? 
 

Thanks

[Topsy]

20 minutes ago, Reactivestills said:

Original post and genuine.

Thanks for the many replies. I have been shooting digital since 2002. Had shot film for 2 yrs and loved it. Feeling having a meter in the MP would be a definite help coming from using an EVF with all controls. 
 

Q: Do you feel since the MP is older and the MA released in 2014 - The MA is better built?

Seems the MP has had a few issues from posts I’ve found on here - What’s your thoughts? 
 

Thanks

If you are buying new then the build quality will be the same since they are made in the same place by the same team.Your only real choice is built in meter or not.

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, Matlock said:

Thankfully that is not the case in the UK.

Or the US.  There are lots of good film labs still around if you don't mind mail order processing.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Helge]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Reactivestills:

Original post and genuine.

Thanks for the many replies. I have been shooting digital since 2002. Had shot film for 2 yrs and loved it. Feeling having a meter in the MP would be a definite help coming from using an EVF with all controls. 
 

Q: Do you feel since the MP is older and the MA released in 2014 - The MA is better built?

Seems the MP has had a few issues from posts I’ve found on here - What’s your thoughts? 
 

Thanks

I would go for an MP. At the end, the M-A is just an MP without a meter, if you’re not an ascetic or a purist.

You’ll get the  advantage of having a meter just at the shot. If you decide later to use a separate meter (I.e. for indecent measurements), you just ignore the internal meter…..or you just stay with the internal one.