Product shooting with Summilux 50 1.4 ASPH

[andba]

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I'm planning to test-drive a 50 Summilux + M10-P combo in a studio setting to shoot packaging (bottles, cans, smallish boxes etc).

In order to capture detail, I'm thinking about adding one of the following. Can anybody point me in the best direction here?

_ Macro Adapter 
_ Elpro 52
_ Oufro 16469

I need to get tight enough to show label details and small typography, potentially paper texture... but nothing too extreme or abstract if that makes sense.

Would be good for whatever solution to be a candidate for more general use too, but that would be a bonus and is not necessarily a dealmaker.

[leicameech]

The macro adapter requires you to get really close and not much in between. Like inside of 6 inches with very shallow depth of field, forcing you to focus stack. Not practical either because it would require you to remove the lens, put the adapter on in between the body and the lens, and then be astoundingly close to your subject all the time. Would definitely want a tripod, though I like to move around and get the composition I want before breaking out the tripod to mess with the lighting while doing test shots The Elpro would be my preference for what you're planning on shooting, but not ideal either.

Are you test driving from a Leica store? If you're considering springing for an M10-P + 50 Lux primarily for studio work I'd recommend looking at the SL system. I shoot an M lens on the SL2 but own a Sigma 105 Macro, too. I use that in the studio most of the time unless it's just too tight. The 50 is great but for product shots it's not versatile enough without additional accessories such as what you're suggesting. Buying an SL2, 50 Lux-M, M adapter L, and 105 Macro or 70 Macro from Sigma would cost you less than the M10-P + 50 Lux and would give you more functionality, the ability to tether (love that feature), and generally a better camera for using in a studio setting, in my opinion. Even buying an SL camera with the 50 (or 75) SL lens would allow you to get closer to your subject without a macro adapter than you could with the M lens and cost less than the M10-P+50 Lux-M. For product photography I really like the 105, as it's easier to get a tight crop and get the most out of a small space not having to worry about having a large background. For portraiture in the studio the 50 is hard to beat. The 50 is great for a product group shot (like a bag loadout or something of the sort) in the studio, but for detail of a specific product, it wouldn't be my first choice (at least not the M 50). I shot this with the SL2 and 105. If I were planning on cropping to get the tighter detail shots with the 50 M I'd prefer more resolution than the M10-P, so if you're dead set on the M, then consider the M10-R? 

 

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[wda]

2 hours ago, andba said:

I'm planning to test-drive a 50 Summilux + M10-P combo in a studio setting to shoot packaging (bottles, cans, smallish boxes etc).

In order to capture detail, I'm thinking about adding one of the following. Can anybody point me in the best direction here?

_ Macro Adapter 
_ Elpro 52
_ Oufro 16469

I need to get tight enough to show label details and small typography, potentially paper texture... but nothing too extreme or abstract if that makes sense.

Would be good for whatever solution to be a candidate for more general use too, but that would be a bonus and is not necessarily a dealmaker.

If all is purely in the planning stage, I would start afresh. Have you considered a CL with macro lens? Your proposed kit would not be my choice.

[Danner]

How about a used Nikon D600 (24 Mpixel, about $450) and a used 105mm f/2.8D-AF Nikkor (about $250), which will be dramatically superior for your intended purposes.

Sorry for the 'blows against the L-Empire' post.

[pgk]

I use a Sony A7II and 50mm macro for such images these days. Far cheaper, far more versatile and I defy anyone to complain about the image quality. Not really an Rf's forte at all.

[a.noctilux]

For same type of pics, I use macro lenses from SLR on M with LV/EVF : Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm/Apo-Macro 100, Zuiko 50mm, Micro-Nikkor, etc.

I had tried with OUFRO/Macro-adapter-M/Visoflex/M lenses, complexe in use, nothing compared to focus from infinity to 1:2 with SLR macro lenses.

[andba]

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I suppose I should add some detail here, based on the above.

I already own the M10-P and the 50 lux. I am not a product photographer at all (although I've been on many, many sets as an art director). I primarily (as in 99% of the time) shoot out of a studio and in the real world, but in this and other certain instances, want to be able to capture things in my home "studio".

It seems like the 3 ideas I already had are no good — would it be worth just renting a 90 macro elmar, or just get it out of my head to shoot products with an M camera altogether?

Thanks all.

[a.noctilux]

If you had done with your Summilux at mini focus distance of 70cm, you can crop a bit.

What kind of product you plan to take pics of ?

Another question, the planned field object in cm or inches.

 

Summilux 50mm at 70cm , 271 x 407 mm / 1:11.3

Macro-Elmar-M 90mm has mfd of 77cm !

Field covering 160x240mm ...

Edited August 4, 2021 by a.noctilux

[jankap]

1 hour ago, wda said:

If all is purely in the planning stage, I would start afresh. Have you considered a CL with macro lens? Your proposed kit would not be my choice.

An APS-C camera would give a better depth of field. Have you thought of using a smart-phone? A longer focal length would be a better choice, would go on cost of depth depiction.

Edited August 4, 2021 by jankap

[adan]

Personally, this is where I immediately go to a 75mm lens. Same 0.7m minimum focus (except Summarit f/2.5), but 57% more magnification. A 75 can reproduce the world at 1/7th life-size (without add-ons) while a Leica M 50 only gets down to 1/11th life-size.

The floating element for better close-focus resolution makes the 75 APO-Summicron-ASPH a bit better at larger apertures - but stopped down for DoF, the Summarit f/2.4 and C/V Nokton (and old Summilux f/1.4) are just as good.

But also keep in mind that adding close-up gizmos (filters, extensions) to a lens with a floating element (like the 50 f/1.4 ASPH) may cause image problems. The FLE is adjusted when focusing for best performance at the distance indicated by the focus ring.

If your lens is set to 0.7+ meters, but you are actually only 0.5m from the subject, the "math" of the floating optical formula will be incorrect - probably resulting in some loss of resolution, or curvature of field, or unusual aberrations (color fringes, corner smearing).

Also personally - at this point I don't even use a 50mm for anything - a 75 replaces it very well in all situations. As Ralph Gibson said recently, "75mm is the new 50mm".

..........................

If you must keep your 50 for general use, and don't want to buy another expensive Leica lens for studio-only, and are going to add gizmos and use TTL viewing anyway (EVF/LV), I think (along with a.noctilux) your best bet is to get a dedicated manual-focus SLR macro lens "of a certain age" with an appropriate SLR > M adapter.

A Leica 60mm Macro-Elmar-R is one choice ($400-$600 + adapter); a Nikon 55mm Micro-Nikkor f/2.8 or 3.5 will likely produce identical results ($140-$425 + adapter). Both with continuous focusing (no gaps) anywhere between 1:2 macro and infinity.

75mm f/1.5 Voigtländer Nokton at 0.7m on M10

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Edited August 4, 2021 by adan

[andba]

Thanks for the sound advice, everybody. I have my marching orders. An SLR lens + adapter seems to be the smart move.

@adan I JUST got this 50mm Summilux, but you are making me very curious about a 75. I've shot many 50s, some 90s — never a 75.

Interesting...

@a.noctilux This particular assignment is shooting 8oz Boston round glass bottles of various sauces. The main secondary objective is to capture details of label edges and paper texture, so I would like to be able to get pretty close.

[a.noctilux]

So your smart move would be fine, the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm or even any SLR macro/micro + 'X'mount to M adapter can do what you want.

Longer the focal length ( like 60 to 105mm) may be better choice for lighting (even for naturally lit objects) not to worry with shadows.

In this case, I'd add Visoflex 020 to my M10.

Edited August 4, 2021 by a.noctilux

[lct]

Another vote for 75mm here.
Sony A7s mod + Summarit 75/2.5

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[giannis]

11 hours ago, andba said:

to show label details and small typography, potentially paper texture

What's your lighting setup?

[pgk]

11 hours ago, andba said:

.....would it be worth just renting a 90 macro elmar, or just get it out of my head to shoot products with an M camera altogether?

You can shoot 'products' with your set up but its very limiting indeed. I've done so with 50/75/90 lenses and the results are fine - within the limitations imposed by the camera and lenses. If you are just doing a small amount of this sort of photography then try your existing M10/50, or if you want to have more versatility then I suggest that you rent another, more versatile camera and lens - which will probably be as cheap as renting a 90 macro Elmar.

[01af]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb andba:

I already own the M10-P and the Summilux-M 50 Asph. [...] just get it out of my head to shoot products with an M camera altogether?

That would be the best idea indeed. As has been pointed out several times, an M camera is not really the best tool for product photography.

If you still want to try then get an achromatic close-up lens with a strength between +1.0 and +1.6 dpt, plus a filter adapter ring as required. The Elpro 52 is a good close-up lens but way too strong for your purposes (approx. +7 dpt). You may also try an easier-to-find +2 dpt lens but that will leave you with a small gap in the field-of-view sizes covered with and without close-up lens ... which can be bridged by some cropping.

Of course, with a close-up lens attached, framing and focusing must be accomplished via live-view. The M viewfinder will be useless.

[AndreasG]

I got excellent results of close ups by using an old Macro-Elmarit-R 2.8/60 together with the adapter 14198 and a noname R-M adapter on a M10-D, focussing via EVF 020. Image scale is up to 1:1 at top quality. The Macro-Elmarit I bought used at ebay for reasonable money.

[pippy]

13 hours ago, andba said:

...It seems like the 3 ideas I already had are no good — would it be worth just renting a 90 macro elmar, or just get it out of my head to shoot products with an M camera altogether?...

It all depends on how much effort you are prepared to put in to the project.

Personally speaking as practically all my work is small-ish scale objects shot in my studio - many of which require a lot of macro-work - a DSLR which can shoot tethered straight into a lap-top is by a very long way the most productive solution. I have, on occasion, shot with my M but in comparison with a DSLR it's a right PITA.

OTOH as you already have your M10 + Summilux I can understand why you might want to get a functioning 'work-around' to take advantage of the quality not to mention not having to invest in another system for only occasional use.

FWIW I'm another who would highly recommend a 75mm and I've found that the Summarit is a superb performer.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

[a.noctilux]

As Philip wrote above, Summarit-M 2.5/75 + Elpro is very good and easy for 'proxi-photo'.

as here (not product pics) to see how well it renders on my M10

 

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my mom's hot peppers are good subjects

have a good look as whole image (blending of colours, blur/non blur , etc. ) Summarit-M 2.5/75mm + Elpro VIIa adapted to E46 on M10+020

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[chasdfg]

I'd go with an OUFRO or an extension tube with helicoids (Kipon makes them but i've never tried) or a Novoflex visoflex II/III (basically essentially stacked OUFROs/extension tubes). They're probably cheaper than the ELPRO and the most cost effective solution for macro on an M with Liveview. I myself have the Novoflex visoflex II/III. With a 50mm lens it gets to 1:2 reproduction ratio or thereabouts IIRC. Works with all my M lenses too and I can use all 3 tubes or just 1 depending on how much magnification I want. It is discontinued though, I got mine used.

Alternatively, I'd get a DSLR macro lens with adapt it, e.g. a micro-nikkor 55mm/60mm and a Nikon F to M adapter. Gives you focus throughout the range too, but probably more expensive than extension tubes. Or as others have said, a dedicated macro setup from Nikon/Canon/Sony. For me if I'm not doing a lot of macro, the extension tubes work. No need extra lenses too.