90mm F2.8 Elmarit

[Lowepatt]

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I have  a early and late production year of SM (M39) and a late M Mount totaling three 90MM F4 Elmar. If I want to start to do the same with 90mm F2.8 Elmarit and what should I start with. A late SM (M39) or a early or late production year of M Mount?  I know many people here has more than three or more  Elmar and Elmarit and any advice or suggestion would be appreciated. I might add another Tele Elmarit in future too. Thank you.

[a.noctilux]

Not really answering your question of Elmarit, in M mount,

I'd start with Summarit-M 2.4 or 2.5/90mm.

This will be my planned next 90mm, having some Elmar/Macro-Elmar-M/Elmarit/Tele-Elmarit/ and used Summicron 90mm for long.

 

Anyway, each 90mm is different from the other, so try some.

 

To give you an idea of size Elmarit/Tele-Elmarit(thin), comparing to my prefered 75mm

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and Elmar LTM 90 is so compact and light

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by a.noctilux

[tranquilo67]

Hi,

Not sure if you're looking for M only or screw mount only or mount independent.

Here you have my Elmarits 90 in chronological order (the first version in black has been recently incorporated and is not in this picture). There are chrome variations of the fat tele and last version that I still miss, as well as the screw mount first version. Hope that can inspire you.

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Also for inspiration purposes here you have my thin Elmar 90, also in chronological order. Missing in the picture a variation that I recently got, as well as the fat and the 3 elements (I have it in M mount only but available in both mounts).

Hope it will help (and beware, they're trend to reproduce!! 🙂 )

Augusto

 

[luigi bertolotti]

Sorry, but to answer I do another question : is it for collecting (specifically, to have two sets of 90s - f4 & f2,8 - spanning the same lifecycle (old - SM / late - SM / late - BM) , or to use 3 90 2,8 that, spanning a wide range of age, do have different "characters" ?

Collateral (and important) question... is your BM Elmar 90 "late" in the sense that is the modern Macro Elmar, or is it a "classic" Elmar 90 (which one ? can be a 3 elements... or a collapsible.. or even a std. E39) 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[Lowepatt]

18 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Sorry, but to answer I do another question : is it for collecting (specifically, to have two sets of 90s - f4 & f2,8 - spanning the same lifecycle (old - SM / late - SM / late - BM) , or to use 3 90 2,8 that, spanning a wide range of age, do have different "characters" ?

Collateral (and important) question... is your BM Elmar 90 "late" in the sense that is the modern Macro Elmar, or is it a "classic" Elmar 90 (which one ? can be a 3 elements... or a collapsible.. or even a std. E39) 

 

Sorry Luigi, I know you are a very experienced Leica person to ask. I am not collector and I do not use Leica camera as well. I use these Leica Lenses for my Fujifilm X-pro 3 since these Leica primes has their own characters/styles which I like. Yes, I have three 90mm F4 already. The first one is without coating and the next two with single coating. But now I want to try F2.8 with M mount which I prefer. By collecting all these Leica lenses, I will add a Leica Digital body as well and that is my next step. I have a chance to get a late 90mm Elmarit standard E39 but I want your advice to get the early or late production year first or should I say to which Elamrit first. By the way, I only use Leica as my third party lenses at the moment. Thank you ahead.

[luigi bertolotti]

OK , thanks for explanation :

If you start with the Elmarit you have found, it's by sure a good choice to start... "classic" rendering quite similar to your "middle Elmar" , no matters if in screw or bayonet... they are absolutely identical... the BM is also easy to find in black, if one likes.  Given that is (relatively to Leitz) not costly , be careful that is in good consitions : frone element is rather prone to scratch; anyway, the old Elmarit is also an item that can be cleaned/adjusted/polished rather easily : the lens cell is custom-removable like Elmar's ,and can be dismounted in turn.. the RF coupling is simple to tune, etc...

Your 2nd 2,8 (the "intermediate") could be a Tele Elmarit M (the late black one), the lightest 90 made by Leitz.

And finally.. the one which in my experience is the sharpest 90 made by Leica (but haven't all of them... 😉) : the late Elmarit M : heavy and bulky (but with built in hood) 

(the Summarit 2,5 is probably as sharp as it... and more compact/light... but , having its brother 75, I find that the built quaility is not at the level of the Elmarit)

And after that... , put ensemble, in the same mood, the set of 3 90 f2 (Summicron V1, Summicron V2, Apo...😁)

Edited August 5, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[UliWer]

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I recently learned that the 1:2.8/90mm Elmarit, though being a well known and rather mundane lens, has some sort of a history.

I remember having read some years ago a memory from someone from Leitz from the sixties who mentioned that they had troubles to conceal the Schneider origin of a "90mm Elmarit". When I read this, I thought that something must be wrong, since the 90mm Elmarit for the M clearly showed no signs of any Schneider origin. 

But the story seems to be corroborated by recent publications. Thiele's "Großes Fabrikationsbuch Leica-Objektive" from 2020 states that the last batches of the 90mm Elmarit (nos. 2.084.801 from 1965 to 2.721.320 from 1974) were produced by Schneider. In his foreword Thiele refers to the fabrication records from Schneider. So my black version 2.426.477 (1969) seems to be made by Schneider. 

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This is strange since the Elmarit clearly was designed by Leitz in 1958 and built at Leitz Wetzlar until 1964 and according to Thiele during the Schneider times of production the lens design wasn't changed. So other than the Super-Angulon it wasn't a Schneider design sold with a Leitz brand.  I can see no differences between the results from my black (Schneider) version and my chrome (Wetzlar) version from 1962.

I can only speculate about the reasons why Leitz gave the late production of the Elmarit to Schneider. One might be that they already produced the ("fat") Tele-Elmarit since 1963 in Midland as a Mandler design. Probably Leitz Wetzlar had abandoned their production of 90mm Elmarits but since there was still demand for the original Elmarit (lens head could be used on the Visoflex) they looked for another producer. Another - very theoretical - reason might be that Leitz was contractually obliged to buy something from Schneider. 

However, I like the (old, long) Elmarit. It is a lens without "character" - which may be a good sign for a 90mm lens. And I am still searching the lens which vignettes less and has less distortion than the old, long 90mm Elmarit. 

[Pyrogallol]

So my 2374 lens is also a Schneider, like my 21mm Super Angulon.

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[sandro]

Very interesting! I had an older chrome Elmarit and now often use my black version from 1966. Isn't this a Mandler design?

In the production book (of course by Thiele) of Schneider I find a first batch of 394 Elmarit 90mm lenses for Leica M on 11 june 1965, on 16 june followed by a batch of 600 lenses. Interestingly they were recorded in the administration with Schneider serial numbers, whereas in fact they must have been given Leitz serial numbers. 

Production in 1965 went as follows:

22 june 1965 600 Elmarit

30 july 1965 100

5 oct.  1965 284 (iun the same period production of the Super-Angulon seems to have begun for Leitz)

6 oct. 1965 500

12 oct 1965 1000

13 oct 1965 300

22 oct. 1965 200

3 nov. 1965 246

So in 1965 a total of 4224 Elmarits were produced by Schneider for Leitz. As remarks always Leica M was mentioned, and 'Sondern.', which means special number. I assume the Leitz serial numbers were meant by that.

Lex

 

[UliWer]

In the introduction to the 4. edition of his „Fabrikationsbuch“ for Leica lenses Thiele says that the Schneider serial numbers are under the front ring on which the Leitz serial numbers were applied. 
On my photo in #87 you may see two small patches between the Leitz serial number and „Elmarit“ and between „90“ and „Leitz“. There are very small screws in  recesses and it looks as if you could loosen the front ring by them and would find the Schneider serial number below. (I won‘t try as I am sure I would loose the tiny screws…). 

[sandro]

Thanks Uli! Like you, I won't try to loosen the front ring myself, but I think I will ask Will van Manen next time I visit him.

Lex

[derleicaman]

18 hours ago, UliWer said:

In the introduction to the 4. edition of his „Fabrikationsbuch“ for Leica lenses Thiele says that the Schneider serial numbers are under the front ring on which the Leitz serial numbers were applied. 
On my photo in #87 you may see two small patches between the Leitz serial number and „Elmarit“ and between „90“ and „Leitz“. There are very small screws in  recesses and it looks as if you could loosen the front ring by them and would find the Schneider serial number below. (I won‘t try as I am sure I would loose the tiny screws…). 

Actually, there are not screws holding this ring. They are depressions or notches that take a spanner tool. I tried with my rubber ring lens tool and it wouldn’t budge. I tried this tool on my chrome 90 Elmarit, and I was able to remove that ring. I can report that there was no other serial number engraved under that ring.

I’m not going to try my spanner tool on this ring as it is too easy to slip. I’ll let someone else try this!

Edited August 12, 2021 by derleicaman

[sandro]

This morning when I picked up some things at Will van Manen and upon my request he took off that front ring of my Elmarit, which is in one of the groups produced by Schneider for Leitz in 1966. There is nothing to be see, no serial number at all. Of course this doesn't mean that there are no other Elmarits with the hidden Schneider serial number. On the other hand, does it really make sense to put a number on a lens on a position where nobody will see it? Perhaps more likely is that the Schneider numbers for these lenses simply weren't used. In Thiele's Schneider book it says "Sondernr." , "special number", for every batch of Elmarit lenses.

Lex

Edited August 24, 2021 by sandro