New firmware for the SL2? I

[BernardC]

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3 hours ago, HeinzX said:

As time goes by .... Time to wake up for Leica. It is a shame, that the SL2 is the very last for the fimware update. A camera which is said - or sad in this context -- to be a professional one ,

I appreciate the sentiment, but I disagree with the logic.

First, AF is the least "professional" of all features. Professionals know where to put the sharpness plane, they don't need help with that.

Second, SL2 owners already got a huge firmware update. How soon we all forget.

Third, SL2 owners aren't waiting for a bug fix, they are waiting for new/free functionality that wasn't even hinted-at when they bought their cameras.

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[Timkr]

I am well invested in Sony, 2A1s, 600, 400, 200-600, 135, etc.  some may not like their ergonomics, I love it, but, the results are outstanding. The af is incredible.  Going on a vacation with the grand kids next week and struggling to take any leica gear because I know I’ll miss focus on shots.  Doesn’t happen with Sony.  If leica would just improve  the CAF to the S1 level, please!!!

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

 

Second, SL2 owners already got a huge firmware update. How soon we all forget.

Third, SL2 owners aren't waiting for a bug fix, they are waiting for new/free functionality that wasn't even hinted-at when they bought their cameras.

Yeah we got the feature that they wanted to give us anyway, but none of the bugs where addressed in the SL2 firmware.

I am waiting for bug fixes. I will take the LUT preview and other option that probably should be there. But most of all I am limited buy the bugs in the current firmware of SL2

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

Second, SL2 owners already got a huge firmware update. How soon we all forget.

Which "huge" firmware update?

The 2.0 update added a feature announced on day one and minor adjustments

https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/Leica-SL2/Firmware

[BernardC]

40 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The 2.0 update added a feature announced on day one and minor adjustments

That's exactly my point. That update added promised features  (leaving aside the perrenial problem of buying on promised features, since it certainly isn't brand-specific).

This update will bring features that weren't on the roadmap. Leica never gave a specific date for their availability. It's not the same thing at all.

Besides, we know that it's in beta right now. There are people on this forum who are testing it (and who can't tell us too much). It's hard to argue that Leica is doing nothing.

[Timkr]

It’s not that they are doing nothing,  they aren’t  doing enough relative  to the market, in my opinion.

[Ktsa5239]

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While I feel like the delay had been disappointing, and I really look forward to these new features we might be getting. I also feel that I’m not lacking anything on the SL2. Yes the af is not as fast as other brands, but it’s not unusable for me

Edited August 12, 2021 by Ktsa5239

[Ktsa5239]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:56 PM, Slender said:

The beta testing is over I can tell you this lol

Could you tell us if the new features is enough to make us leap out in joy ? Or get absolutely mind blown? 

[Timkr]

For those of you who haven’t tried the Sony A1 with any of the gm lenses,  it’s hard to understand how wide the gap is today.  I love using the SL2 and Q2 but, I know they can be better. Frustration is compounded by Leica’s lack of transparency around roadmap, updates etc. 

[Jeffry Abt]

18 minutes ago, Timkr said:

 I know they can be better.

Really?

I enjoy my SL2 as it is. The moment I don’t, I’ll sell it. Updates or not.

…the idea that Leica’s corporate actions will change in one way or another is like marrying someone thinking they will somehow change in the future. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Jeffry Abt

[Simone_DF]

58 minutes ago, BernardC said:

That's exactly my point. That update added promised features  (leaving aside the perrenial problem of buying on promised features, since it certainly isn't brand-specific).

Ah, here's the next evolution of marketing. 

1. Announce feature X in upcoming hardware

2. Release hardware with no feature X, but promise it in an upcoming firmware update

3. 8 months later, release promised feature as a 2.0 firmware

4. almost two years since the release, claim you've been supporting the camera with huge firmware updates ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Simone_DF]

53 minutes ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Could you tell us if the new features is enough to make us leap out in joy ? Or get absolutely mind blown? 

The SL2s update is really good. I'm happy with the camera, the AF has improved significantly, although there's still a lot of work to do on that front. The camera went from being a beta release to a normal, usable 2021 camera. I expect the same to happen to the SL2, and while there's no doubt the wait has been way too long, in the end you guys will be satisfied with the amount of life improvements the firmware brings, if SL2s parity is reached. 

[Timkr]

Ktsa5239 Good for you, we obviously have very different expectations

[Speeding]

2 hours ago, Timkr said:

For those of you who haven’t tried the Sony A1 with any of the gm lenses,  it’s hard to understand how wide the gap is today.  I love using the SL2 and Q2 but, I know they can be better. Frustration is compounded by Leica’s lack of transparency around roadmap, updates etc. 

Yes wide gap indeed.  The A1 is miles behind in build quality, reliability, handling, GUI, IBIS, weather sealing and M-mount lens performance.  It's as engaging as a rice cooker with a shutter button.  😂  

[Timkr]

Totally disagree with you.  I’m sure you have data to support this or, are you just spouting off?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Timkr

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Ah, here's the next evolution of marketing. 

1. Announce feature X in upcoming hardware

2. Release hardware with no feature X, but promise it in an upcoming firmware update

3. 8 months later, release promised feature as a 2.0 firmware

4. almost two years since the release, claim you've been supporting the camera with huge firmware updates ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Yes, in a way. Nikon users waited over a year for ProRes RAW to be enabled on their cameras. The Sony way is to make you buy a whole new camera to fix overheating issues that are crippling the camera you own...

To put this in perspective, camera brands used to make running changes to cameras, so early customers would never get the upgrade. There's a bright side to this: very early Nikon F's had changes every week (seemingly), so those cameras are extremely collectable!

Hence my point: don't buy a camera if you need a feature that hasn't yet been delivered. Wait a bit.

[Simone_DF]

7 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Yes, in a way. Nikon users waited over a year for ProRes RAW to be enabled on their cameras. The Sony way is to make you buy a whole new camera to fix overheating issues that are crippling the camera you own...

Sorry, I don't agree. I'm done with Sony, but Sony is the company that released Real Time Eye and Animal Eye AF tracking for the A7III and A7rIII out of the blue, without announcing it as a pre-release. It was definitely a very welcome add-on.

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, Speeding said:

Yes wide gap indeed.  The A1 is miles behind in build quality, reliability, handling, GUI, IBIS, weather sealing and M-mount lens performance.  It's as engaging as a rice cooker with a shutter button.  😂  

Yes, must be the reason why the SL line is selling like hotcakes and overtaking even the M, while Sony camera division will be the next Olympus, right?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It all comes down to preferences.....

There is no doubt the Sony's are technological marvels. If you need/want the tech they have then they're available and you should buy one. Hoping and praying that the SL2 will get to that level is a fools errand. It won't. Not even close. Ever.

Then, some will use the above to say that the SL line is "behind" or "last gen". This is false. Simply a matter of expressed disappointment or misplaced expectations. We'll get that line, "at what it costs it should have class leading....." eventually. Again, false. But we'll still get the threads comparing the SL2-s to a Sony or the SL2 to a Hasselblad.... *sigh*. All the while ignoring that the SL2 does lead in many areas and so did the original SL. Just not in CAF.

Yes, the SL line shares some features and ideas with other brands. So does an Audi TT with a Beetle. SL camera are not trying to compete with Sony and they have a different philosophy. It is what it is. The SL is typical Leica. A more considered camera than it's competitors that prioritises the user experience and IQ over speed and flexibility. Yes it's fast and flexible. But it's not trying to be a Canon R5 or Sony A1 competitor. You either buy into the better build quality, more heft, nicer materials and excellent handling or you don't. You can't cram everything an A1 does into an SL2 and keep the button layout and the menus. It won't be the lean, simple layout camera we're used to. The buttons won't be as big or as well laid out. If you wanted CAF that's as good as a Sony you should have bought a Sony...

I've gone through a bunch of Sony's. Haven't liked a single one of them, really, although I can't deny their tech or ability to get results. To me, though, the tech is way down the list. And I'm not obsessed with having thousands of perfectly exposed and focused shots of my cat. I don't even own a cat. I value handling and the user experience and great glass. So, FOR ME, no Sony can ever compete because they're missing the things that are most important for MY shooting experience.

But if I shot sports for a living I wouldn't be shooting it with an SL2-s. And I also wouldn't be whining about the SL2 CAF performance. I'd go and get an A1 or an R5 and get on with it (I'd certainly get the R5 instead of the Sony). Why? Because I knew exactly what I was getting when I pulled the trigger on my SL/SL2. I did my research, and based on my needs I bought the camera that suits me the most. The camera that suits the way I like to shoot. So obviously, when people go on about the SL2's failings I just don't get it. Because I don't have any thing I didn't see coming. All the compromises either didn't matter or were something I could live with. I can't live with the menus, buttons and joystick on a Sony.

As far as I can see, there's two major areas the SL2 is bettered by the competition and a few minor ones. The major ones are TTL flash options and CAF. Both well known from the start. No surprises here. We all knew this when we hit the buy button, right?

So pardon me if I don't get all the pages and pages about the SL2 CAF or eye focus. Did you guys not see this coming when you looked at buying one? And if you did, why on earth did you pull the trigger anyway? Do you really think a firmware update will make the SL2 a Sony A1 competitor?

All cameras have compromises. You pick the ones that affect you the least and go out and shoot.....

Gordon

[Speeding]

6 hours ago, Timkr said:

Totally disagree with you.  I’m sure you have data to support this or, are you just spouting off?

Pointing out the obvious.