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New firmware for the SL2? I


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2 hours ago, Boojay said:

Are we expecting a firmware update to improve AF in the SL2 to bring it in line with the SL2-s (therefore having similar performance to the Panasonic S5)?  Have we been expecting this for some time?   Anyone know/ or can guess why it's taking so long, could it be that the SL2 hardware is not able to take this step forward in autofocus?   

I am a fairly patient person, having tried a Panasonic S5 I know it's not a giant leap forward but it would be welcome, and it seems a long time coming.

The SL2 and APO Summicrons give (to my eye anyway) the very best IQ there is, of course that comes at a price.  But, put the camera in AFC - tracking tried every which way, and believe me I have spent many many hours trying various combinations and it is so so far behind the other options available it's painful, useable but frustrating.

As well as the SL2 I also have a Canon R6.. with mostly EF lenses but a few RF lenses, including the very cheap and cheerful Samyang 85 1.4 AF,  ( think it comes in at about a tenth of the cost of the 90 SL) and is of course a third party lens ( no alliance here😉).   Yesterday my grandkids were round and usual sports events took place, very competitive lot in their gymnastics and running events.  I used the SL2 and 90 SL and did get some fun and memorable shots of the day.  However, vexation sets in when I compare yesterdays sequence of shots to some I took a couple of weeks ago (in much poorer light which of course wouldn't help) with the R6 and Samyang lens.  Similar settings, though it takes a bit longer to dial them in and learn the too numerous menu options of the Canon, the Canon set up did not fail to track and keep focus (sharp) throughout pretty much every sequence.   In bursts of 10-15 shots I can't see where the Canon misses, in bursts from the SL2, maybe 1-2 shots in focus.

With the SL2 and 90 SL continuously losing focus and just a few frames as keepers but having superior IQ to the many from the Samyang lens it's a case of quality over quantity.    Now for me, who doesn't earn a living from photography, it's not vital that my SL2 nails it every time, I don't do serious wildlife and sports photography, the SL2 would be gone if that was the case.. just frustrated that Leica can't make the whole package, if they can't, they should at least give us what tiny improvements are available.

Rant over.... feel free to shoot me down in flames, and I know, first world problems 🙂.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m having a much better than expected experience with SL2 AF even on fast moving targets, even very fast. The caveat I found so far is strong back and side lighting can cause lots of false positives, but I believe this is a known issue with CDAF for some years now. 

I had my first shoot with the SL 90 yesterday and again was pleasantly surprised based upon upon what I read/warned AF performance wise. But was surprised with how stiff the MF focus ring. At this point I do however avoid AFC for the most part. The pulsing can be disarming as I am are trying to work. For AFC needs I feel iAF does a better job with the current SL2 firmware particular for very fast moving targets. I shoot AFS for moving targets too. But at some point I’ll probably take some time to stress AFC and measure final image results against expectations. 

Like you I had to put in a lot of time experimenting with all the AF modes scenarios and sub settings. I am sure there are even more combinations for me to test with different scenarios. 

Yes, the SL2 could certainly use AF enhancement and like you and others, I’m hoping to see some improvement in the next firmware. But honestly I am not expecting any major leaps in AF performance due to the higher resolution SL2. But recent DFD enhancements do look promising. 

I’m still experimenting with a couple of what appears to be quirks,  but this type of experimentation always works out for me as I learn strengths/weaknesses and how to get the best out any camera and honestly at some point I tire of the testing combinations and just use what I know to make it work which means my needed experimentation gets put off to another day. 

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I've been having my SL2 for almost 2 years since 21st Nov 2019.

I also have the M10R and enjoy the compactness of it and M lenses when I do not require AF such as landscape and street photography applications.

As a result I have my 90-280mm almost permanently attached onto my SL2 for capturing fast moving subjects. Due to the shorter reach of the 280mm range, I set a profile with iAF / tracking / shutter priority @ 1/3200 sec / medium drive / auto ISO / APSC format for the 225 AF sensors to maximise capturing moving subjects. A scope device is attached to the lens' tripod mount as I found that using the scope device to track moving subject allows me to view the moving subject before it enters the frame.

The consistent success rate on sharp pics at minimum DOF I've gotten has been high. Although there are times teh AF will not lock on when the shutter release button is pressed due to strong back light or / and subject being too small in view.

I do look forward to an improvement in AF in the next firmware update. My wishlist is to be able to have continuous AF on High Drive setting.

 

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39 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

I do look forward to an improvement in AF in the next firmware update. My wishlist is to be able to have continuous AF on High Drive setting.

I agree, but I suspect the existing Maestro II processor isn't powerful enough to do the computing needed for High Drive (an potential advantage to SL2-S in this respect).

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb helged:

I agree, but I suspect the existing Maestro II processor isn't powerful enough to do the computing needed for High Drive (an potential advantage to SL2-S in this respect).

Hello Helged,

I don't understand you; SL2 and SL2S are using the same CPU, the Maestro III (as far as I know there isn't any other camera from Leica with Maestro III); so we can expect the same.

SL2S can take 25 frames/s - SL2 "only" 20 - but these with 47MP instead of 20MP, this is very impressive (all without AF, Exposure control, electronic shutter)

 

thomas 

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2 hours ago, helged said:

I agree, but I suspect the existing Maestro II processor isn't powerful enough to do the computing needed for High Drive (an potential advantage to SL2-S in this respect).

Yeah. Comparing the 225 CDAF sensors on the SL2 vs Sony mirrorless with double PDAF/CDAF sensors, the Maestro II processor should not have sufficient processor power.

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2 minutes ago, MediaFotografie said:

Hello Helged,

I don't understand you; SL2 and SL2S are using the same CPU, the Maestro III (as far as I know there isn't any other camera from Leica with Maestro III); so we can expect the same.

SL2S can take 25 frames/s - SL2 "only" 20 - but these with 47MP instead of 20MP, this is very impressive (all without AF, Exposure control, electronic shutter)

 

thomas 

47Mpx will take up twice the image processing over 24Mpx leaving it less AF processing power. On average the AF sensors require more than 400 calculations per second.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb sillbeers15:

47Mpx will take up twice the image processing over 24Mpx leaving it less AF processing power. On average the AF sensors require more than 400 calculations per second.

ok, we will see (hopefully in the next weeks);

first FW of the SL2S has the same AF behaviour than SL2, then it makes a great step forward with FW 2.0 - and Leica told us, we will get the same for SL2, so I'm very confident we will get it

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6 hours ago, MediaFotografie said:

Hello Helged,

I don't understand you; SL2 and SL2S are using the same CPU, the Maestro III (as far as I know there isn't any other camera from Leica with Maestro III); so we can expect the same.

SL2S can take 25 frames/s - SL2 "only" 20 - but these with 47MP instead of 20MP, this is very impressive (all without AF, Exposure control, electronic shutter)

 

thomas 

Hi Thomas. Sorry - my mistake; both SL2 & SL2-S have Maestro III (I was thinking about S3 that still has Maestro II). 

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On 29/8/2021 at 11:09, Boojay said:

Ci aspettiamo un aggiornamento del firmware per migliorare l'AF nell'SL2 per portarlo in linea con l'SL2-s (avendo quindi prestazioni simili alla Panasonic S5)? Lo aspettavamo da tempo? Qualcuno sa / o può indovinare perché ci vuole così tanto tempo, potrebbe essere che l'hardware SL2 non sia in grado di fare questo passo avanti nell'autofocus?   

Sono una persona abbastanza paziente, avendo provato un Panasonic S5 so che non è un gigantesco balzo in avanti ma sarebbe il benvenuto, e sembra che ci voglia molto tempo.

L'SL2 e l'APO Summicron danno (ai miei occhi comunque) il miglior QI che ci sia, ovviamente questo ha un prezzo. Ma metti la fotocamera in AFC: il tracciamento ha provato in ogni modo, e credimi, ho passato molte ore a provare varie combinazioni ed è così lontano dalle altre opzioni disponibili che è doloroso, utilizzabile ma frustrante.

Oltre alla SL2 ho anche una Canon R6.. con principalmente obiettivi EF ma alcuni obiettivi RF, incluso il Samyang 85 1.4 AF molto economico e allegro, (pensa che costa circa un decimo del costo del 90 SL ) ed è ovviamente un obiettivo di terze parti (nessuna alleanza qui 😉). Ieri i miei nipotini erano in giro e si sono svolti i soliti eventi sportivi, molto competitivi nelle loro gare di ginnastica e corsa. Ho usato SL2 e 90 SL e ho ottenuto alcuni scatti divertenti e memorabili della giornata. Tuttavia, la vessazione inizia quando confronto la sequenza di scatti di ieri con alcuni che ho fatto un paio di settimane fa (in una luce molto più scarsa che ovviamente non sarebbe d'aiuto) con l'obiettivo R6 e Samyang. Impostazioni simili, anche se ci vuole un po' più di tempo per comporle e imparare le troppe opzioni di menu del Canon, l'impostazione Canon non ha mancato di tracciare e mantenere la messa a fuoco (nitida) praticamente in ogni sequenza. A raffiche di 10-15 scatti non riesco a vedere dove manca il Canon, a raffiche dalla SL2, forse 1-2 scatti a fuoco.

Con SL2 e 90 SL che perdono continuamente la messa a fuoco e solo pochi fotogrammi come custodi, ma con un QI superiore ai molti dell'obiettivo Samyang, è una questione di qualità rispetto alla quantità. Ora per me, che non si guadagna da vivere con la fotografia, non è fondamentale che la mia SL2 la inchiodi ogni volta, non faccio seriamente la fotografia naturalistica e sportiva, la SL2 sarebbe sparita se fosse così.. solo frustrato che Leica non può realizzare l' intero pacchetto, se non possono, dovrebbero almeno darci i piccoli miglioramenti disponibili.

Svela... sentiti libero di abbattermi tra le fiamme, e lo so, i problemi del primo mondo  🙂 .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

absolute truth!!!  i agree

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On 8/29/2021 at 11:09 AM, Boojay said:

Are we expecting a firmware update to improve AF in the SL2 to bring it in line with the SL2-s (therefore having similar performance to the Panasonic S5)?  Have we been expecting this for some time?   Anyone know/ or can guess why it's taking so long, could it be that the SL2 hardware is not able to take this step forward in autofocus?   

The SL2 should be able to perform more or less the same as the SL2-s.

The S1R got the same S5 update, and performance is very close, so why not?

But don't worry, running kids will still be blurry :lol:

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43 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The SL2 should be able to perform more or less the same as the SL2-s.

The S1R got the same S5 update, and performance is very close, so why not?

But don't worry, running kids will still be blurry :lol:

Yes, for sure sometimes, but it's ok as long as it's just for family recordings and 1 out of 10 shots will do😁.

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1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

Can you show us with pics?

Sure, here's two. I usually delete them, but somehow I kept a couple.

The second person was not even running, just walking.

 

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13 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Sure, here's two. I usually delete them, but somehow I kept a couple.

The second person was not even running, just walking.

The SL2-S would get these three without trouble using iAF and face/body recognition. It might have picked the wrong face in the first one.

Perhaps something to look forward to with the SL2 f/w.

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58 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The SL2-S would get these three without trouble using iAF and face/body recognition. It might have picked the wrong face in the first one.

Perhaps something to look forward to with the SL2 f/w.

Agree. The shots above are with a SL2, but since I switched to the SL2-s, both AF-C and face recognition have visibly improved.

It would probably miss the first - too many kids in the frame, all running erratically, in these cases the AF system just goes from one point to another for no reason instead of sticking to one subject until there's an input by the photographer (maybe an additional firmware update can limit this behaviour), but yes, the SL2-s should have no problems with the remaining two shots.

Panasonic's AF-C is still subpar when compared to everything else released in the last 7 years though. 

 

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In the first pics, the moving subject speed is slow.

With my shooting experience using SL2 on focus tracking much faster moving subjects & with tricky back lighting, the AFC consistently delivers on the pics I've posted earlier.

There is no reason technically which the SL2's AFC cannot cope on your pics on slow moving subjects. Look into your AF detail settings. It took me a while to test and adjust my AFC tracking detail settings on flying subjects and store them as one of my AF profiles. While it works for my BIF, the said AF profile is totally useless for me to shoot a stationary bird among bushes, the AF would just move all over the place.

The other trick is to make sure the AFC focus box is locked on to your subject at the right part of the subject (box will turn green) before releasing the shutter. Mashing the shutter release with the focus box locked on the wrong location in the frame could be part of the problem.

Importantly, for AFC to work on SL, SL2 & SL2S, the drive speed selected must not be higher than 'medium drive'. 

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I am not missing shots like I see above that I would blame on the camera's AF with the SL2 and SL primes I use, unless very strong backlight where I can't get enough contrast in the frame. My SL2 system is a fairly recent purchase so I have updated SL2 and SL primes to the latest firmware so maybe this helps as well as a lot of time experimenting with multiple settings. Which makes me wonder if some have not updated camera and lens firmware? Or expecting the camera to make all the decisions on what to focus on? 

Also, please know I certainly believe those posting AF issues. And no the SL2 CDAF/DFD system is not the supersonic PDAF AF system we see in many Sony/Canon cameras. FWIW, If I found I could only hit one AF frame in 10 after all the hands on time I put into learning the SL system I would not keep that camera either.

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