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2 hours ago, jyrkialanen said:

You must be living in some kind of a parallel universe then, because in this wold A1 is the fastest (if the definition for speed is fps) by a significant margin

Granted, the a1 has 30 fps on the specs sheet , although real-world reviews report that the real top-end is around 15 (which is what your link says). Any video camera can do 60 fps all day, some in 8K or 12K, so 30 frames for a few seconds isn't necessarily a big deal.

Nikon and Canon have by far the best AF, and the best responsiveness. Perhaps you watched the Olympics? I'm sure that Sony sent-out a press release about one or two photographers who were paid to use the a1, but the other 99% use Canon or Nikon. It's a tiny market, and it's firmly locked-up bu those two companies.

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It all comes down to preferences..... There is no doubt the Sony's are technological marvels. If you need/want the tech they have then they're available and you should buy one. Hoping and praying that the SL2 will get to that level is a fools errand. It won't. Not even close. Ever. Then, some will use the above to say that the SL line is "behind" or "last gen". This is false. Simply a matter of expressed disappointment or misplaced expectations. We'll get that line, "at what it costs i

This thread is full of opinions, mostly biased, being passed off as fact.  I have no doubt you found ‘articles’ that support one opinion or another.  The fact is both the Sony a1 and leica SL2 are great cameras, and one may be better than the other in a given scenario.   I just want a firmware upgrade to bring the SL2  to a level equal to the Lumix S1.  The rest of this is noise.

Are we expecting a firmware update to improve AF in the SL2 to bring it in line with the SL2-s (therefore having similar performance to the Panasonic S5)?  Have we been expecting this for some time?   Anyone know/ or can guess why it's taking so long, could it be that the SL2 hardware is not able to take this step forward in autofocus?    I am a fairly patient person, having tried a Panasonic S5 I know it's not a giant leap forward but it would be welcome, and it seems a long time coming.

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11 minutes ago, Timkr said:

I get 30 FPS with 50 MP all day long with gm lenses.  You are entitled to your opinions but not your own facts

I was quoting the linked articles (and multiple other sources that concur). If you disagree with that article, perhaps you should comment there?

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This thread is full of opinions, mostly biased, being passed off as fact.  I have no doubt you found ‘articles’ that support one opinion or another.  The fact is both the Sony a1 and leica SL2 are great cameras, and one may be better than the other in a given scenario.  
I just want a firmware upgrade to bring the SL2  to a level equal to the Lumix S1.  The rest of this is noise.

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Every time this thread pops to the top I think there may be an update about THE update. Instead I see the pissing contest continues . Ha Ha oh well. Carry On. Looks like its going to be a very long rest of August waiting for Leica Wetzler to get back to work in September. 

In the meantime, I shoot both flagships in real life and if anybody is truly interested to know how handing and results compare please feel free to send me a message, I am happy to share what I have learned through many hours of hands-on learning and practice. IMO both Formidable (impressive) systems in so many ways.  

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I don’t want 30 FPS I don’t need it. I want finally an update for the SL2. So please stop this noise about other cameras. Or open your own thread for “discussion”. For me this noise is not worth the time. I come here not to miss the update.

30 FPS is as useful as 300 km/h in a car. And as realistic. I use a video camera if I need more than 20 FPS. Now please don’t come back to tell you need it. Do this in a different thread.

All know that both systems are usable, maybe even formidable. Only ignorants would tell that one is unusable. 

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3 hours ago, BernardC said:

 

Nikon and Canon have by far the best AF, and the best responsiveness. Perhaps you watched the Olympics? I'm sure that Sony sent-out a press release about one or two photographers who were paid to use the a1, but the other 99% use Canon or Nikon. It's a tiny market, and it's firmly locked-up bu those two companies.

Absolutely! If you do sports it is Nikon or Canon. If you’re doing a paid gig on the sidelines or court side it is simple. I was always a Nikon man myself. Do you drive a Ford or a Chevy? But never, never  a Sony! 
 

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10 hours ago, BernardC said:

Granted, the a1 has 30 fps on the specs sheet , although real-world reviews report that the real top-end is around 15 (which is what your link says). Any video camera can do 60 fps all day, some in 8K or 12K, so 30 frames for a few seconds isn't necessarily a big deal.

Nikon and Canon have by far the best AF, and the best responsiveness. Perhaps you watched the Olympics? I'm sure that Sony sent-out a press release about one or two photographers who were paid to use the a1, but the other 99% use Canon or Nikon. It's a tiny market, and it's firmly locked-up bu those two companies.

Once the R3 and Z9 are released this may be the case but currently it's not. I have a close friend and associate who shoots the current Canon pro bodies (and he has done for 20 years) and he's thoroughly tested the A1 and A9 (my A9) against his current 1Dx bodies. The A1 bests his Canon in AF performance for anything that moves. Subjects that stay in the same place in the frame are similar. Tracking a subject moving around in the frame is on another level. He's waiting to see what the R3 does before making a final decision. FPS isn't the only measure of a tracking AF system.

FYI Sony had an extensive gear center at the Olympics. Sony bodies were easy to spot in the press areas.

I've said many times I don't like Sony cameras. But there's no denying the tech.

Gordon

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18 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Once the R3 and Z9 are released this may be the case but currently it's not. I have a close friend and associate who shoots the current Canon pro bodies (and he has done for 20 years) and he's thoroughly tested the A1 and A9 (my A9) against his current 1Dx bodies. The A1 bests his Canon in AF performance for anything that moves. Subjects that stay in the same place in the frame are similar. Tracking a subject moving around in the frame is on another level. He's waiting to see what the R3 does before making a final decision. FPS isn't the only measure of a tracking AF system.

FYI Sony had an extensive gear center at the Olympics. Sony bodies were easy to spot in the press areas.

I've said many times I don't like Sony cameras. But there's no denying the tech.

Gordon

In the past the Olympics was always the race on the best pro camera by the Japanese companies.
It is interesting to see that Nikon didn't have mirrorless camera this year.

In any case does cameras are very specific to the purpose. For the most of us a marketing gimmick . Some of the tech will be passed down to other cameras.

 

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4 hours ago, Photoworks said:

In the past the Olympics was always the race on the best pro camera by the Japanese companies.
It is interesting to see that Nikon didn't have mirrorless camera this year.

In any case does cameras are very specific to the purpose. For the most of us a marketing gimmick . Some of the tech will be passed down to other cameras.

 

Apparently there were a few prototype Z9's in testing. Although I agree that even that is a year late.

I agree few *need* an A1 or similar. But many are obsessed by the quest for technical perfection, over all else. They're not hurting anyone and they're paying for that tech development for the rest of us..

Gordon

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I can understand that a photog sellling pics wants to have as many sharp pics as possible, so he thinks the A1 is optimal. On the other hand if you make photos mainly for your own use and for keeping “memorable” moments these huge collections of meaningless and empty photos that the camera has taken (the camera electronics not the photographer) are mainly a burden.

So yes, for a professional, that means a seller who is not interested in the photos, but only how well they sell, for such a pro the A1 is optimal and the “best camera”. For an amateur (who likes the single photo of a special moment) such a camera is rather useless.

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That may be the dumbest thing I’ve read.  As an amateur photographer who shoots mainly wildlife and grandchildren, getting as many shots in focus is the best way the capture that memorable moment.  I would agree with you if I were puttering around the garden shooting flowers.

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7 minutes ago, caissa said:

So yes, for a professional, that means a seller who is not interested in the photos, but only how well they sell, for such a pro the A1 is optimal and the “best camera”. For an amateur (who likes the single photo of a special moment) such a camera is rather useless.

I would add that any professional who relies mainly on having pictures that are "sharp" probably isn't doing too well.

It's a very competitive market, you need to offer something that others don't. Everyone can produce sharp pictures.

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29 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I would add that any professional who relies mainly on having pictures that are "sharp" probably isn't doing too well.

It's a very competitive market, you need to offer something that others don't. Everyone can produce sharp pictures.

I agree - as a professional - the picture should be more than sharp.  But I want to emphasize it must ALSO be sharp.  ☺️ Otherwise, the market I make pictures for it is not possible to sell anything uskarp. So a camera that has trouble solving the task and focusing - it's not that good.

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1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said:

I agree - as a professional - the picture should be more than sharp.  But I want to emphasize it must ALSO be sharp.  ☺️ Otherwise, the market I make pictures for it is not possible to sell anything uskarp. So a camera that has trouble solving the task and focusing - it's not that good.

Exactly. That's why I stopped using Canon. I'm sure their AF tests well, but it's still AF: it's reactive and constrained to where you tell the camera to focus. The problem was that their new focusing screens were so soft that I couldn't focus by eye. The SL was a revelation: I could focus again! To be fair, I knew I wasn't the problem, my older cameras were as easy to focus as always.

I know that this isn't helpful when discussing AF, but not all jobs depend on ultra-fast AF. What matters most (to me) is controlling the plane of focus precisely in order to tell a story. I find it amazing how many cameras deliberately get in the way of that simple requirement.

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17 hours ago, Timkr said:

That may be the dumbest thing I’ve read.  As an amateur photographer who shoots mainly wildlife and grandchildren, getting as many shots in focus is the best way the capture that memorable moment.  I would agree with you if I were puttering around the garden shooting flowers.

You should read your own notes. You would easily find dumber and cruder things, like this one.

Really a great discussion !!   So senseless and even impolite. You have no day job ? You live on writing things like this ?

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Are we expecting a firmware update to improve AF in the SL2 to bring it in line with the SL2-s (therefore having similar performance to the Panasonic S5)?  Have we been expecting this for some time?   Anyone know/ or can guess why it's taking so long, could it be that the SL2 hardware is not able to take this step forward in autofocus?   

I am a fairly patient person, having tried a Panasonic S5 I know it's not a giant leap forward but it would be welcome, and it seems a long time coming.

The SL2 and APO Summicrons give (to my eye anyway) the very best IQ there is, of course that comes at a price.  But, put the camera in AFC - tracking tried every which way, and believe me I have spent many many hours trying various combinations and it is so so far behind the other options available it's painful, useable but frustrating.

As well as the SL2 I also have a Canon R6.. with mostly EF lenses but a few RF lenses, including the very cheap and cheerful Samyang 85 1.4 AF,  ( think it comes in at about a tenth of the cost of the 90 SL) and is of course a third party lens ( no alliance here😉).   Yesterday my grandkids were round and usual sports events took place, very competitive lot in their gymnastics and running events.  I used the SL2 and 90 SL and did get some fun and memorable shots of the day.  However, vexation sets in when I compare yesterdays sequence of shots to some I took a couple of weeks ago (in much poorer light which of course wouldn't help) with the R6 and Samyang lens.  Similar settings, though it takes a bit longer to dial them in and learn the too numerous menu options of the Canon, the Canon set up did not fail to track and keep focus (sharp) throughout pretty much every sequence.   In bursts of 10-15 shots I can't see where the Canon misses, in bursts from the SL2, maybe 1-2 shots in focus.

With the SL2 and 90 SL continuously losing focus and just a few frames as keepers but having superior IQ to the many from the Samyang lens it's a case of quality over quantity.    Now for me, who doesn't earn a living from photography, it's not vital that my SL2 nails it every time, I don't do serious wildlife and sports photography, the SL2 would be gone if that was the case.. just frustrated that Leica can't make the whole package, if they can't, they should at least give us what tiny improvements are available.

Rant over.... feel free to shoot me down in flames, and I know, first world problems 🙂.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Boojay said:

Are we expecting a firmware update to improve AF in the SL2 to bring it in line with the SL2-s (therefore having similar performance to the Panasonic S5)?  Have we been expecting this for some time?   Anyone know/ or can guess why it's taking so long, could it be that the SL2 hardware is not able to take this step forward in autofocus?   

I am a fairly patient person, having tried a Panasonic S5 I know it's not a giant leap forward but it would be welcome, and it seems a long time coming.

The SL2 and APO Summicrons give (to my eye anyway) the very best IQ there is, of course that comes at a price.  But, put the camera in AFC - tracking tried every which way, and believe me I have spent many many hours trying various combinations and it is so so far behind the other options available it's painful, useable but frustrating.

As well as the SL2 I also have a Canon R6.. with mostly EF lenses but a few RF lenses, including the very cheap and cheerful Samyang 85 1.4 AF,  ( think it comes in at about a tenth of the cost of the 90 SL) and is of course a third party lens ( no alliance here😉).   Yesterday my grandkids were round and usual sports events took place, very competitive lot in their gymnastics and running events.  I used the SL2 and 90 SL and did get some fun and memorable shots of the day.  However, vexation sets in when I compare yesterdays sequence of shots to some I took a couple of weeks ago (in much poorer light which of course wouldn't help) with the R6 and Samyang lens.  Similar settings, though it takes a bit longer to dial them in and learn the too numerous menu options of the Canon, the Canon set up did not fail to track and keep focus (sharp) throughout pretty much every sequence.   In bursts of 10-15 shots I can't see where the Canon misses, in bursts from the SL2, maybe 1-2 shots in focus.

With the SL2 and 90 SL continuously losing focus and just a few frames as keepers but having superior IQ to the many from the Samyang lens it's a case of quality over quantity.    Now for me, who doesn't earn a living from photography, it's not vital that my SL2 nails it every time, I don't do serious wildlife and sports photography, the SL2 would be gone if that was the case.. just frustrated that Leica can't make the whole package, if they can't, they should at least give us what tiny improvements are available.

Rant over.... feel free to shoot me down in flames, and I know, first world problems 🙂.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No need to shoot you down - you have expressed how many of us feel.  

Of course, if I keeping looking at the results from your M10R, then I will probably sell the SL2 anyway 🤣

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