The M-pire Strikes Back!

[augustwest100]

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I am enjoying my SL2-S while missing an M (always had at least one M film or digital camera for the past decade). I'm going to fix that problem now. I think I posted about this previously, but perhaps now my thoughts and needs are more clear. I am planning to use the SL2-S mostly with a 24-70 attached, until I inevitably break down and get the 24-90. I would also use it with my 35 Lux M if I need color images but don't want the bulk of a zoom. 

I'm trying to decide whether the original M-Monochrom used would be a good companion (assuming sensor replaced) for the SL2S. The use would be mostly personal projects, and to return to the basics (light, shadow, composition). I would also consider the M10M, but there is obviously a vast difference in price. What I love about the M10M is the silky shutter sound, and the possibility for a better EVF down the line for times I want to experiment with very long or very wide focal lengths. The LCD is of course much better. I do not shoot quickly, so buffer size is not important. I hate batteries and wish there was an effective way to make a digital camera with a mechanical shutter! I don't love the form factor of the M246.

From my past experience with an M9, the only things that I remember disliking were the lo-res LCD and the funky shutter sound. I didn't even "miss" live view until the newer versions had it. I come from film, so reaching 6400 ISO is already plenty, though the possibilities that the M10M might open for me in low light does appeal to me.

I plan to print images up to about A3, but would consider larger if a certain image really hit the mark (happens about once every 5 years!)

So...

M9M good enough for my purposes, or should I go for the M10M? Any monetary difference is probably just a trick - I will end up spending the savings on more Leica gear

 

 

[mmradman]

M9M, all is well if you can get one with guaranteed non-corroding sensor and even then you are dealing with 2009 camera with diminishing support.

On the other end of the spectrum is uber new and pricy M10M, all is good if price is not an issue. If your spending limit is S/H M9M you may wish to consider M246 instead, it is built like a proverbial brick house and you can get either new or S/H for the price similar to M9M. 

[a.noctilux]

Each Monochrom IS different from the others.

- I'm happy with MM1 (new sensor) and still use it with pleasure when I don't need the MM2

- M (typ 246) is "better" ( ... more "modern" with a bit more features to make life easier ) when I need more battery life or EVF

- having in use the two Monochroms changed my 'want/need' of the M10-M, I still use plain M10 for color though

 

Good news, each Monochrom can give very good b&w results with most (or all ? ) of my lenses 😇.

 

So each choice of Monochrom can be a good choice.

Only differ some small usabilities to learn to know then 'forget' when in use.

[Stef63]

5 hours ago, augustwest100 said:

From my past experience with an M9, the only things that I remember disliking were the lo-res LCD and the funky shutter sound. I didn't even "miss" live view until the newer versions had it. I come from film, so reaching 6400 ISO is already plenty, though the possibilities that the M10M might open for me in low light does appeal to me.

I have owned the first Monochrom and the M typ 246 and now have the M10-M (besides an SL2 and an M10). To me the biggest difference between the two older monochrome versions and the current on the M10 based body is ISO performance.  This is the first digital camera in 20 years where I use Auto ISO as a standard and … forget totally about ISO.  I have it set on minimum 2times focal length and the only thing I worry about is aperture and what the effect of depth of field will have on my photo.  

Low light performance was always around the corner to ruin what you had in mind.  Not with the M10-M anymore.  It’s a thing of the past.  A true relief and this is for me the biggest contributor to the joy using this camera.  Maybe besides the possibility to pull light out of black.  My exposure compensation is mostly set to -1.5.  In post I’m always able to pull the full potential out of what initially looks like an underexposed photo.

[augustwest100]

35 minutes ago, Stef63 said:

I have owned the first Monochrom and the M typ 246 and now have the M10-M (besides an SL2 and an M10). To me the biggest difference between the two older monochrome versions and the current on the M10 based body is ISO performance.  This is the first digital camera in 20 years where I use Auto ISO as a standard and … forget totally about ISO.  I have it set on minimum 2times focal length and the only thing I worry about is aperture and what the effect of depth of field will have on my photo.  

Low light performance was always around the corner to ruin what you had in mind.  Not with the M10-M anymore.  It’s a thing of the past.  A true relief and this is for me the biggest contributor to the joy using this camera.  Maybe besides the possibility to pull light out of black.  My exposure compensation is mostly set to -1.5.  In post I’m always able to pull the full potential out of what initially looks like an underexposed photo.

This is helpful, thanks. When you use this method (Auto ISO, 1/2 x focal length, aperture priority), are you able to set the rear dial for exposure compensation?

[Stef63]

I do not use the rear dial for exp compensation, but I just tried it and it works.  

[Likaleica]

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M9M is an awesome camera but quirky.  Images from that, in my hands, are as good as I get with M10M up to 3200 ISO.  I overlapped both for a couple of years then recently let go of the M9M, frankly because I wasn't using it and it's too good a camera to have it sit on my shelf.

[LeicaS2]

Go for the 246 at $4,000

So says a very pleased M10M user who did not have a budget constraint, and wanted the quiet shutter, thinner body and unlimited ISO.

The 246 is a smarter choice over the M9 mono in my opinion because of the sensor replacement issue. Otherwise a very nice camera.

As previously stated, they are all wonderful.

Suggest you read these comparisons.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/06/bw-iso-showdown-leica-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m-monochrom-m9-vs-m-typ-240/

and

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/05/bw-iso-showdown-2020-leica-m10-monochrom-vs-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m10-p-vs-sl2/

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, LeicaS2 said:

The 246 is a smarter choice over the M9 mono in my opinion because of the sensor replacement issue. Otherwise a very nice camera.

 

There might be various other reasons, but I’ve yet to read or hear about a single instance of corrosion or failure once the newest sensor has been installed.  If someone is interested in an M9M, I would simply recommend checking with Leica or, better yet, buying from a trustworthy dealer like Leica Miami that will not sell one without the new sensor.

Jeff

[Herr Barnack]

Even though it is painfully costly, I would recommend the M10 Monochrom.  It is a game changer imho.

[jplomley]

On 5/27/2021 at 3:39 PM, Stef63 said:

I have owned the first Monochrom and the M typ 246 and now have the M10-M (besides an SL2 and an M10). To me the biggest difference between the two older monochrome versions and the current on the M10 based body is ISO performance.  This is the first digital camera in 20 years where I use Auto ISO as a standard and … forget totally about ISO.  I have it set on minimum 2times focal length and the only thing I worry about is aperture and what the effect of depth of field will have on my photo.  

Low light performance was always around the corner to ruin what you had in mind.  Not with the M10-M anymore.  It’s a thing of the past.  A true relief and this is for me the biggest contributor to the joy using this camera.  Maybe besides the possibility to pull light out of black.  My exposure compensation is mostly set to -1.5.  In post I’m always able to pull the full potential out of what initially looks like an underexposed photo.

Careful when you lift those shadows images don’t start looking like HDR cartoons. I use an incident meter and dial in exposure manually. Never had a problem with highlights on the M9M or M10M. 

[Herr Barnack]

6 hours ago, jplomley said:

Careful when you lift those shadows images don’t start looking like HDR cartoons. I use an incident meter and dial in exposure manually. Never had a problem with highlights on the M9M or M10M. 

😅 That is the best description of HDR images I have ever heard!  @jplomley, take two tacos out of petty cash!

[david strachan]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:20 AM, LeicaS2 said:

 

As previously stated, they are all wonderful.

Suggest you read these comparisons.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/06/bw-iso-showdown-leica-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m-monochrom-m9-vs-m-typ-240/

and

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/05/bw-iso-showdown-2020-leica-m10-monochrom-vs-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m10-p-vs-sl2/

Excellent references thanks Mr Leica S2.

[otto.f]

This may sound very strange out of my mouth, but in your case I would go for the M10M. Probably. I love my Monochrome1 and would never sell it or trade it in for a more recent Monochrome. I sold my M10 after one year because I had a very personal, subjective dislike of its colors. But I was very fond of the camera and its progress in rangefinder, sound of shutter etc. etc. From what I’ve seen here I like the results from the M10M much more than those from the M246. So that wouldn’t stop me either. I would be well willing to pay the extra money for the feeling the M10M as a camera gives me. I would only prefer an MD version of it, but if that doesn’t exist I can live with a screen. There’s one thing I would test first. The results of the M10M appear to me sometimes as too good to be true, a bit slick sometimes. If it is not possible to get some more raw images out of it I’d go back to the Monochrome1. Here are a few examples from Monochrome1 to leave you in doubt a bit more:
https://lotwouda.zenfolio.com/p387796182/ha967f7b0#ha967f7b0

https://lotwouda.zenfolio.com/p735541593

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by otto.f

[rtai]

15 hours ago, jplomley said:

Careful when you lift those shadows images don’t start looking like HDR cartoons. I use an incident meter and dial in exposure manually. Never had a problem with highlights on the M9M or M10M. 

I am new to digital black and white with only three months of experience using Lightroom. What I like about the M10M is the natural looking files as long as the exposure is correct. While errors can be corrected using the sliders and dodging/burning every little thing adds up to make the image look like fake b/w. I know this is completely subjective but it is the fake looking mono images I keep seeing posted as fine art that kept me shooting film until a year ago. I will go out with a handheld meter next time. I photograph people on the street so need to shoot fast, often too fast to compensate for the backlit scene. Pre-meter like the film days is an excellent suggestion.

Edited May 31, 2021 by rtai

[otto.f]

 

[augustwest100]

The experience that opened my eyes to photography in the first place was a plastic Diana camera and some black and white film. The magic of watching an image appear for the first time on photographic paper submerged in developer is one of my core memories from childhood. In high school, I had the good fortune to be "seen" by an art teacher who encouraged me to explore my interest in photography further. I had a taste of the thrill of taking over the school darkroom - I learned responsibility, respect for others, and the experience of making friends that have similar interests as me. One of my black and white photographs won a local contest and was exhibited at the local bank - not exactly MOMA, but for an impressionable young teen, a great experience. I still have that black and white photograph from what seems like a thousand years ago. Every film camera I ever owned had Tri-X or some other B&W roll in it. The first thing I tested in every digital camera I have owned was how to convert the images to black and white. 

For these reasons, and many more, I'm getting the M10M  I would have been just as happy with an M9M I truly believe. But I went with M10M, and for no particular big reason, just a collection of small ones. Hoping that a new visoflex might go well if my eyes get worse, using live view to compose the odd 21mm shot, hoping the newer technology holds up longer, etc..,

So now, I will have the SL2-S for the times I need color or macro, or autofocus, and the M10-M to remind me of how it all started for me.