Jono's Review: Leica Vario Elmarit SL 24-70 f2.8 ASPH

[setuporg]

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8 hours ago, i-Leica said:

....yes, and many still buy Porsche

I specifically bought a VW instead of Audi after seeing how the corner of the engine lid is replaceable -- the VW has its logo and the Audi has its own.  So you pay $10K for a plastic corner and some trim.  Which is worth it to some.  I make sure I get the best engine (V6).

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[RBB]

Oscar Wilde said, a cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing

[setuporg]

...which can work both ways, e.g. the value of a Voigtlander as a lens -- the value of the images it takes -- might be very high despite its lower price.  I have a lot of Leica Leica gear, so this is specifically focused on the rebadged Sigma.  The strenuous efforts to emphasize metal barrel and front ring and absence of lock buttons as superior craftsmanship strikes me as strained.  The value of Sigma is superb and in this case is as much as the rebadged Leica version.  I've watched the whole Red Dot Forum episode about it and alas am not convinced that Sigma is in any way less than the Leica.  The episode spent most of it time showing that the 24-90 is better than 24-70, however using f/3.2 for 24-90 at 35mm vs f/2.8 for 24-70, and showing the un-metal barrel of Sigma, a wobbly shade, and a plastic front element and "potentially less weather-proof buttons" (?!).  The tenor of it was also "since nobody is saying it's a Sigma", let's consider it on merits.  Then the only thing left to do is to consider Sigma vs "Leica" and most likely stick with the Sigma in this specific case.  QED.

Edited May 16, 2021 by setuporg

[JimKnopf]

@setuporg

do you think the leica 24-70 is not as bad as shown in the comparison?
That was almost as good, if you had compared it correctly.
The Sigma was of course down, but it was bad in the image comparison.

[Cobram]

History recurrence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

 

[dkCambridgeshire]

1 hour ago, Cobram said:

History recurrence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

 

Reminds me of the annual school drama productions in 1957 when at Green Lane School in Worcester Park Surrey, one chosen 'play' was "The Emperor's New Clothes'. The little lad (I could name him ... he had two older sisters at the school) chosen to be the Emperor was naked apart from his underwear, a ceremonial mace and a gold crown  ... He was actually made to wear his elder sister's 'big girl's bloomers'. The little lad marched majestically off the stage in a procession ... down the centre aisle ... very proudly tipping his crown and mace to all the parents in the audience .. and back up to the stage again ... Another lad then shouted, "Look at the King! ... He's naked!!"  ... much to the amusement of all. So now I'm thinking the new Leica SL 24-70mm is a 'big girl's bloomers' lens ... c/w a Leica crown!  

dunk

Edited May 17, 2021 by dkCambridgeshire
typo

[Archiver]

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On 5/8/2021 at 1:04 AM, Jeff S said:

Yep, and they sure wouldn’t market a budget friendly kit for the SL2-S by mating it with a Sigma. New Leica customers typically end up buying more stuff.

Jeff

Funny you say this, because the Sigma 24-70 is bundled with the SL2-S as a kit. Official Leica dealers have this kit, including the Leica boutiques.

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Archiver said:

Funny you say this, because the Sigma 24-70 is bundled with the SL2-S as a kit. Official Leica dealers have this kit, including the Leica boutiques.

Leica is of course now bundling the SL2-S with its own 24-90 (roughly $600 savings in US).
 

Jeff

[jonoslack]

18 hours ago, setuporg said:

...which can work both ways, e.g. the value of a Voigtlander as a lens -- the value of the images it takes -- might be very high despite its lower price.  I have a lot of Leica Leica gear, so this is specifically focused on the rebadged Sigma.  The strenuous efforts to emphasize metal barrel and front ring and absence of lock buttons as superior craftsmanship strikes me as strained.  The value of Sigma is superb and in this case is as much as the rebadged Leica version.  I've watched the whole Red Dot Forum episode about it and alas am not convinced that Sigma is in any way less than the Leica.  The episode spent most of it time showing that the 24-90 is better than 24-70, however using f/3.2 for 24-90 at 35mm vs f/2.8 for 24-70, and showing the un-metal barrel of Sigma, a wobbly shade, and a plastic front element and "potentially less weather-proof buttons" (?!).  The tenor of it was also "since nobody is saying it's a Sigma", let's consider it on merits.  Then the only thing left to do is to consider Sigma vs "Leica" and most likely stick with the Sigma in this specific case.  QED.

You have more stamina than I do! I didn't watch the Red Dot episode. Although I have spent a lot of time with the Leica version of the 24-70, I haven't even touched the Sigma, so I can't do any kind of comparison.

My review copy of the 24-70 will go back to Leica in the next week or so, I already have the 24-90, and I can't see any good reason to replace it with the 24-70, although if I didn't have it either of them there would be a decision to be made as to which mid-range zoom to choose (Leica 24-90, Sigma 24-70, Leica 24-70) .

But I'm with you - I don't think there is anything wrong with Sigma QA, and it's obviously better value, maybe the 'package' from Leica is worth the extra (metal body and lens hood etc.), maybe it isn't (depends on your point of view). But I don't think for a moment that you'll get better images from the Leica.

I don't think it's very graceful to nitpick about plastic lens hoods and weather proofing or missing buttons. I do think it's great for Leica to use collaborations with other manufacturers to market worthwhile lenses for us all though.

 

[jonoslack]

On 5/12/2021 at 6:45 PM, snz said:

Hi guys,

sorry to hijack Jono's thread but since I do have both the Sigma and Leica lenses with me right now I might share some insights after shooting with both side by side in my living room:

•  

Excellent - good to hear from someone who has both

[FrozenInTime]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

 

My review copy of the 24-70 will go back to Leica in the next week or so,  ...

Would this be a good time to carry out some, near destructive , rough handling and environmental testing of the lens water and dust sealing ?

A walk along the beach in the wind, rain, sand and salt spray ; I’m sure the British weather will cooperate 😉 

 

[setuporg]

2 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

I’m sure the British weather will cooperate

Seeing you're from Edinburgh, I wonder whether that soon-distinct weather is more clement than the Scottish one:)

[FrozenInTime]

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

Seeing you're from Edinburgh, I wonder whether that soon-distinct weather is more clement than the Scottish one:)

I don't think anywhere goes unscathed  : slow moving heavy downpours on Tuesday then wet and a bit windy on Thursday.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Either day looks like good justification for weather sealing.

 

[caissa]

9 hours ago, jonoslack said:

You have more stamina than I do! I didn't watch the Red Dot episode. Although I have spent a lot of time with the Leica version of the 24-70, I haven't even touched the Sigma, so I can't do any kind of comparison.

My review copy of the 24-70 will go back to Leica in the next week or so, I already have the 24-90, and I can't see any good reason to replace it with the 24-70, although if I didn't have it either of them there would be a decision to be made as to which mid-range zoom to choose (Leica 24-90, Sigma 24-70, Leica 24-70) .

But I'm with you - I don't think there is anything wrong with Sigma QA, and it's obviously better value, maybe the 'package' from Leica is worth the extra (metal body and lens hood etc.), maybe it isn't (depends on your point of view). But I don't think for a moment that you'll get better images from the Leica.

I don't think it's very graceful to nitpick about plastic lens hoods and weather proofing or missing buttons. I do think it's great for Leica to use collaborations with other manufacturers to market worthwhile lenses for us all though.

 

I wonder if the handling of the lens could be better (than Sigma). There was a while ago this firmware upgrade that added “linearity” to the lens controls. AFAIK it is only for the Leica lenses and will probably not work with the Sigma lenses.

So this could make a difference that makes the Leica version the better lens. (for real photography)

In your tests did you use this option ? (Or did I overlook anything ?)

[jonoslack]

15 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Would this be a good time to carry out some, near destructive , rough handling and environmental testing of the lens water and dust sealing ?

A walk along the beach in the wind, rain, sand and salt spray ; I’m sure the British weather will cooperate 😉 

 

Oh, I've already done that - a 12km walk in pouring rain with the camera in my had or over my shoulder for the whole trip. My waterproof clothing leaked, and my boots were actually squelching. The camera and lens were absolutely fine (not particularly good snaps though). Actually, it's been in the rain on a number of occasions (and on the beach as well). 

Actual destructive testing might be a bit more expensive! (I don't want to have to buy a broken lens!)

[jonoslack]

8 hours ago, caissa said:

I wonder if the handling of the lens could be better (than Sigma). There was a while ago this firmware upgrade that added “linearity” to the lens controls. AFAIK it is only for the Leica lenses and will probably not work with the Sigma lenses.

So this could make a difference that makes the Leica version the better lens. (for real photography)

In your tests did you use this option ? (Or did I overlook anything ?)

Hi There

The 'linearity' on the Manual focus - where you can chose auto "Standard MF" (which accelerates if you turn the focus dial faster), or linear at 90 / 180 degrees works well on the Leica version - not sure if it does on the Sigma, but I suspect not.

so, yes - definitely a consideration when making a decision (my Sigma 14-24 defaults to Standard).

Edited May 18, 2021 by jonoslack

[FrozenInTime]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

Oh, I've already done that - a 12km walk in pouring rain with the camera in my had or over my shoulder for the whole trip. My waterproof clothing leaked, and my boots were actually squelching. The camera and lens were absolutely fine (not particularly good snaps though). Actually, it's been in the rain on a number of occasions (and on the beach as well). 

Thanks, sounds like a horrible day ... what was it wainwright said about bad weather.

 Gives me confidence the 24-70 + SL2-S can go where a CL + 18-56 dare not.

Edited May 18, 2021 by FrozenInTime

[hamey]

19 hours ago, jonoslack said:

You have more stamina than I do! I didn't watch the Red Dot episode. Although I have spent a lot of time with the Leica version of the 24-70, I haven't even touched the Sigma, so I can't do any kind of comparison.

My review copy of the 24-70 will go back to Leica in the next week or so, I already have the 24-90, and I can't see any good reason to replace it with the 24-70, although if I didn't have it either of them there would be a decision to be made as to which mid-range zoom to choose (Leica 24-90, Sigma 24-70, Leica 24-70) .

But I'm with you - I don't think there is anything wrong with Sigma QA, and it's obviously better value, maybe the 'package' from Leica is worth the extra (metal body and lens hood etc.), maybe it isn't (depends on your point of view). But I don't think for a moment that you'll get better images from the Leica.

I don't think it's very graceful to nitpick about plastic lens hoods and weather proofing or missing buttons. I do think it's great for Leica to use collaborations with other manufacturers to market worthwhile lenses for us all though.

 

I also agree, remember the lens hood stands on the front of the lens, when walking about or running for that shot it could easily get knocked and damaged.

Plastic could bounce or get cracked, easily replaced or put some tape around it.

Metal could get dinted, be bent, or damaged  on the mount.

And as for lens build quality, I have several R lenses and the best are 35-70mm F4 and the 80-200mm F4 both are built in Japan by KYOCERA.

I don't have ANY PROBLEMS IF LEICAS ARE BUILT IN JAPAN, and in a matter of fact, I prefer them to be built there.

cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by hamey

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[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Thanks, sounds like a horrible day ... what was it wainwright said about bad weather.

 Gives me confidence the 24-70 + SL2-S can go where a CL + 18-56 dare not.

Was it him who said that there's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothing! Which was partly true in this case, but I've yet to find a pair of boots which don't leak through the hole at the top where your leg goes in!

Yes - have confidence, and although the lens wasn't mine, the camera was.

 

[caissa]

Before the new lens was announced, the old R zoom 2.8/35-70 was very desirable. But it is a collectors item and almost impossible to get. (Or only for terrible prices).

But now the SL 24-70 makes an excellent impression. I compared the MTFs of both lenses, and the new lens is much better on paper.  So if anybody has the R 2.8/35-70 lens and could make a comparison with the new SL lens would do me/us a great favor. Or if anybody still has some older portrait photos with the R zoom that we could compare with new photos ... I would find this quite interesting.