do M lenses remain a good long term investment?

[Fedro]

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Like many on the forum I have accumulated a good amount of M lenses over the years, thinking that they are great and, despite expensive, they always go up in value

There seems to be a clear strategy from Leica to either produce collectors' items and vintage reissues (the 28 summaron or 1.2 nocti) and on the other hand a new generation of super modern and performing lenses (such as the 35 APO, the 75 Nocti etc), most of my collection sits in neither category, they are lovely standard lenses (such as a 35 cron ASPH or a 75 APO)

At the same time the gap with the competition has been getting tighter; some of the recent Voigtlander lenses, for example, offer close enough quality (some people wrote 95%) for a fraction of the price

I wonder how others feel about the long term value of their set ups?

[a.noctilux]

do M lenses remain a good long term investment?

...

for me

No

not future investment,

only present time

...as I use them, I'm happy to have them at hand now

I'm not waiting for rising value from them,

but I never deny diminishing of their value.

[Robert Blanko]

The „value“ of my Leica M lenses for me is that they (mostly) satisfy my needs for taking photos.

The „price“ they could achieve today or tomorrow is a rather hypothetical figure for me and I don‘t care about. I don’t regard my lenses as collector‘s items and it is insofar a pure luxury to have them.

The price always depends on how much a buyer would be willing to pay - who might have a totally different appreciation of value, such as focussing on rare limited edition collector‘s items etc. instead of buying lenses for taking photos...

[padam]

Always buy used and at a good price, that way you can't loose money on them (at least I never did)
But thinking that any Leica lens will go up in value and can be re-sold without depreciation because they always raise the new M lens prices is an unfounded myth, just a question of supply and demand.
Leica is very clever at controlling this by limiting production numbers and generating long waiting lists on expensive items like the new 35 APO-Summicron-M or the 50 1.2 Noctilux-M. How much of this is deliberate by them and how much of it is down to the very high initial demand by customers, only they now.

So values can either do up or down, there are a lot of Summicron lenses around, so they are easier to obtain at reduced prices than other lenses.

Voigtländer lenses have been around for quite a while now and didn't affect Leica values that much (nor do they hold their value well), they are not the same thing and it is good to have options if you just intend to use them.

By the way, I sold an M6 TTL for about 1/3rd of its current value (very regretfully, obviously) and it took me many months (I didn't even get lowballers, in the end it got sold to a private dealer) so it is pretty unpredictable what can you sell and for how much. The 75 Summilux-M I got many years ago is the German made V3 version, supposedly becoming rare, but whether I could sell it at it's 'real current value' if I wanted to is highly doubtful.

Edited March 20, 2021 by padam

[pippy]

57 minutes ago, Fedro said:

...I wonder how others feel about the long term value of their set ups?...

No interest whatsoever and couldn't possibly care less.

Philip.

[lct]

Besides collectors, i don't think Leica lenses can be an investment if taking inflation into account but those are lenses one loses the least money with when reselling them i suspect.

[Ouroboros]

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1 hour ago, Fedro said:

....I wonder how others feel about the long term value of their set ups?

Speaking for myself, I compare that to how I feel about the long term value of my van.

[Ccoppola82]

I buy my Leicas used at good value and I never look at them as an investment. Maybe a place holder since they don’t go down in value much?

[AZN]

I mentioned this a while ago in a different thread, but it's an idea to compile a list of your lenses which has the date and how much you paid for each of them. Print the list out and store it with the lenses.

Should something happen and someone else have to dispose of your assets, the list will help them no end.  Few people have any idea how much these things are worth and thus could easily be cheated by low-balling crooks.

(  I went through this a couple of months ago dealing with incredibly dishonest antique dealers when acting as executor for my mother's will.  Would routinely get offers of $100 for furniture that they have worse copies of online (I checked) for 20x that amount. And don't get me started on antique estate jewellery!  Incredibly intricate rings and braclets which they only wanted to pay gold-value for.  Sheesh. )

Back to the lenses.  I have such a list in my camera trunk and at least it will be useful as a guide. In the interrim, it also helps provoke 2nd thoughts when deciding which lens to take when travelling! 😃

 

[cboy]

Depends on where one wants to sell their lenses. But often it comes with sellers remorse😆. What do they about selling leica glass...

[chasdfg]

(I went into a bit of a ramble so apologies for the longer-than-intended reply. Though I hope my reply is useful to others)

I almost always purchase used for lenses. If kept in good condition you won't lose money (or if you purchased used in a worse condition it should retain value unless you overpaid). I always tell myself no lens is so essential that I have to purchase it new, so if I want one, just hold out for a used on. I'm a skint that way i guess, though I have had bouts of GAS where I have purchased new...some lenses are hard to resist. Sometimes you could make a couple of hundred but it depends on the used market and timing (e.g. 50lux or 35FLE -> I've seen them fluctuate in price by about 10% in value every few months). Sometimes a new lens comes out and people panic sell, but then prices rise again after 1 to 2 years.

Those lenses I bought used but have used more extensively I have "lost" due to the fact the lenses have picked up more user marks. Though this is moot if I don't intend to sell them for a long time.

What I did was just sell off all the lenses I wasn't using and trimmed my number of lenses to 5. That way I wouldn't feel obliged to use the lenses just sitting around. When I did use those lenses sitting around, I'd be cautious not to leave any (more) user marks on them and didn't enjoy them properly as a result - too much babying and feeling like I was merely holding the lens on trust for the next owner. Also I kept monitoring the market and seeing "want to buy" ads for those neglected lenses and also seeing what the used market price was. So I bit the bullet and let those lenses go and feel better for it, as whatever I have now is what I should be keeping long term and I can use it and leave marks on it and enjoying them properly.

I do regret selling some of the lenses I sold, or the fact I had no holding power to just store them away without looking and using them. I had a silver 28lux which I sold too hastily... that said My,  now my kit is streamlined and its easier to decide what I want to use. Sometimes with Leica less is more too. I could probably sell 1 or 2 more lenses.

The main lenses that really can be considered investments are those limited releases, since they almost always go up in price. Especially those that are engraved x/x00 (just look at the 50 1.2 in silver). Though 50lux BC adopters know that limited releases can also become standard production, so no guarantees for un-engraved lenses (I must say its not often those un-engraved ones become standard production, so maybe the 50lux BC is just an exception). Also, I think lenses with unique shells, like say the 50lux pre-asph black paint, are likely to stay limited than say a black chrome 28mm summaron (who knows, just speculating). With these limited releases, assuming they stay limited, even using these lenses should retain their value.

With VM glass, they too do limited editions but those are far less frequent and available. Some people might be looking for those. There are some lenses like the VM 35 1.2 v1 in Silver which have gone up in price (up to 4x the black counterpart's) because not many were made. Generally VM and ZM lenses don't hold their value as well as Leicas long term. I rarely see a previous gen's VM lens retaining its value or rising in price. But hey if you get 3 or 4 VM lenses for the price of 1 Leica new, and the 4 VMs and the Leica both lose $1500 over several years, you do lose about the same amount maybe just different percentages? And you get 3 extra lenses while you're at it. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by chasdfg

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

do M lenses remain a good long term investment?

It will likely vary from lens to lens.

The Leica APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH now sells for $5095 USD ($5195 USD beginning April 1).  I got my copy of this lens in 2003 and paid $1995 USD for it.  That is a significant increase but 18 years is a significant time frame, too. 

If I had bought the 90 APO and sold it 1-5 years later, I would have likely lost money.  How long you keep a lens has a bearing on whether you lose money, break even or make money when selling it.

With the above in mind, I bought my 90 APO to make photographs with.  I did not buy it as an investment vehicle.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[spydrxx]

Not to crash the party, but I wouldn't think of the lenses as an investment, but rather as a means of achieving a photographic goal. Yes, many people have been lucky that the value of their lenses has appreciated since their original acquisition, for others the opposite has been true. But to determine if a lens purchase represented a good investment, it must be compared to other potential investments over similar time periods, a home, a common stock, gold bullion, cryptocurrency,  etc. I suspect that when one does so, depending on the timing of when they bought a particular lens, it may have been an average investment, especially for long term holders when inflation is factored in. And unlike many true investments, lenses pay no interest or dividends to compound the financial return.

[Fedro]

5 hours ago, AZN said:

I mentioned this a while ago in a different thread, but it's an idea to compile a list of your lenses which has the date and how much you paid for each of them. Print the list out and store it with the lenses.

Should something happen and someone else have to dispose of your assets, the list will help them no end.  Few people have any idea how much these things are worth and thus could easily be cheated by low-balling crooks.

(  I went through this a couple of months ago dealing with incredibly dishonest antique dealers when acting as executor for my mother's will.  Would routinely get offers of $100 for furniture that they have worse copies of online (I checked) for 20x that amount. And don't get me started on antique estate jewellery!  Incredibly intricate rings and braclets which they only wanted to pay gold-value for.  Sheesh. )

Back to the lenses.  I have such a list in my camera trunk and at least it will be useful as a guide. In the interrim, it also helps provoke 2nd thoughts when deciding which lens to take when travelling! 😃

 

yes, this is a good idea and I thought about doing the same

[Fedro]

8 hours ago, pippy said:

No interest whatsoever and couldn't possibly care less.

Philip.

You are lucky. I have two small children and given the economic situation  I need to worry about stuff like this

Edited March 21, 2021 by Fedro

[Fedro]

4 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

With the above in mind, I bought my 90 APO to make photographs with.  I did not buy it as an investment vehicle.

so did I, but when I look at the value of my lenses, and what I spent on them over the years, it is a considerable amount of my belongings

[Fedro]

1 hour ago, spydrxx said:

Not to crash the party, but I wouldn't think of the lenses as an investment, but rather as a means of achieving a photographic goal

I agree, I use them rather than leaving them in a cabinet. Most of mine have got some signs of usage

[Fedro]

7 hours ago, Ccoppola82 said:

I buy my Leicas used at good value and I never look at them as an investment. Maybe a place holder since they don’t go down in value much?

I also do that, and I learnt that on this forum, I am grateful for that  

[Fedro]

8 hours ago, lct said:

Besides collectors, i don't think Leica lenses can be an investment if taking inflation into account but those are lenses one loses the least money with when reselling them i suspect.

very true, the number of collectors seems to be on the up at the moment if you look at what happened with the 1.2 silver nocti, but then again there are investment bubbles everywhere

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Lelmer]

Investment ??? I simply enjoy using my Leica lenses...life is too short