Am I mad to be considering an S007?

[ardbeg]

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I have the possibility to purchase a gently used S007 from a local dealer for a good price. For context, I'm an ex-M shooter and now exclusively use an SL2 body with a range of adapted M, R, S, L and Canon lenses (although I own 2 S lenses and only one native L lens -- the 50 Lux). Of the autofocus lenses, I like the rendering of the S lenses best (30mm and 120mm). I don't care about weight (obviously). So, thoughts on benefits of the S007 over the SL2 given the life cycle status of the S system (and the S007 in particular). For example, is the DR / rendering difference that much noticeable? I'm not replacing the SL2 but considering moving the S lenses to be used on their native platform. The S3 look very nice but overkill price wise as I shoot (mostly landscape, portraits, architecture) for my own enjoyment (and to get outdoors) and not professionally. Thank you for your thoughts. 

[Nick Guttridge]

I bought a brand new 007 before Christmas for a really good price from an independent dealer. I'm really pleased with it. I had tested the S3 which was impressive. I just didn't have the extra budget for it. For the size of prints I sell the 007 is more than sufficient. Latest version of photoshop has a new AI feature which helps us enlarge also. 

For me the S system is about using CS lenses to sync the flash at 1/1000th of a second. That's it really, few cameras can do that. 

 

[Jeff S]

I would try to work out a demo/rental arrangement with the dealer (or elsewhere) to see for yourself.  There’s no substitute IMO for determining if you enjoy the viewing and shooting experience, or whether it suits your print workflow and output preferences.

Jeff

[helged]

53 minutes ago, ardbeg said:

I have the possibility to purchase a gently used S007 from a local dealer for a good price. For context, I'm an ex-M shooter and now exclusively use an SL2 body with a range of adapted M, R, S, L and Canon lenses (although I own 2 S lenses and only one native L lens -- the 50 Lux). Of the autofocus lenses, I like the rendering of the S lenses best (30mm and 120mm). I don't care about weight (obviously). So, thoughts on benefits of the S007 over the SL2 given the life cycle status of the S system (and the S007 in particular). For example, is the DR / rendering difference that much noticeable? I'm not replacing the SL2 but considering moving the S lenses to be used on their native platform. The S3 look very nice but overkill price wise as I shoot (mostly landscape, portraits, architecture) for my own enjoyment (and to get outdoors) and not professionally. Thank you for your thoughts. 

Not mad at all... Actually, I am in search for a S006 (with new sensor; anyone out there ?). I had a 006 util recently, I sold it and not long thereafter I miss it...

[ZHNL]

45 minutes ago, helged said:

Not mad at all... Actually, I am in search for a S006 (with new sensor; anyone out there ?). I had a 006 util recently, I sold it and not long thereafter I miss it...

I am with you. I left my 006 at service center and bought a brand new 007 per Leica's trade offer. I have been regret about my decision everyday since it happened. Not 007 is not good but missing my 006. 

I bought 006 back from Leica store early this year. I couldn't be happier. 007's shutter is a huge improvement, dynamic range is top and better than most FF out there, so is LCD based CDAF for landscape shooting. Other than that, I prefer 006's output 90% of time. (rest 10% are low light, Dynamic Range hungry scene of Sunrise/sunset) None of camera I used has better mid-range tone of 006. It is incredible for skin and very stable for vast different light condition. I can't say the same for 007. 006 also give false color and false impression of sharper pixel more than 007. It could be a plus or minus depend on your preference. 

[aksclix]

@ZHNL said it in another post.. Leica is for romance and Fuji is for tech or something along those lines.. and they’re exactly my feelings!! My s006 died on me during an evening walk in the neighborhood and thank goodness that happened to me!! I got an upgrade to S007 for a very attractive price... and boy was that a huge leap from the S006... I LOVE IT!! I hope I don’t go too crazy and add too many S lenses and continue the romance... 

I have so many cameras and I find myself playing with my S007 often.. more than the newest gfx 100s and 80mm f1.7.. 😌 the S007 might be yesteryear tech but the feel of that camera in my palms is just unbelievably good.. When the S3 goes below 10k I’ll be watching 😌 

Edited March 18, 2021 by aksclix

[aksclix]

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13 hours ago, ZHNL said:

I am with you. I left my 006 at service center and bought a brand new 007 per Leica's trade offer. I have been regret about my decision everyday since it happened. Not 007 is not good but missing my 006. 

I bought 006 back from Leica store early this year. I couldn't be happier. 007's shutter is a huge improvement, dynamic range is top and better than most FF out there, so is LCD based CDAF for landscape shooting. Other than that, I prefer 006's output 90% of time. (rest 10% are low light, Dynamic Range hungry scene of Sunrise/sunset) None of camera I used has better mid-range tone of 006. It is incredible for skin and very stable for vast different light condition. I can't say the same for 007. 006 also give false color and false impression of sharper pixel more than 007. It could be a plus or minus depend on your preference. 

I found that my underexposed shots in exposure bracketing were terrible in the S006 I had for a week.. was it not normal? I can share a sample tomorrow to demo what I mean.. 

[tom0511]

If you allready own 2 S lenses I would say go for it. You only have the center point but the S-lenses focus faster and less noisy on a S007 body compared to SL2.

I also think S007 has even better color and midtones and DR than SL2. 

[ZHNL]

9 hours ago, aksclix said:

I found that my underexposed shots in exposure bracketing were terrible in the S006 I had for a week.. was it not normal? I can share a sample tomorrow to demo what I mean.. 

I don't know for sure your situation but I know for 006, underexposure will not work well due to limited dynamic range. CCD sensor likes light. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by ZHNL

[MacSpikes]

I think you are not mad at all. I came from an M system (M9, then M typ something), but since I wanted autofocus for my subjects, I tried both Canon 1d and Sony/Hasselblad HV. I hated the Canon (solid body but lenses like toys), loved the Zeiss lenses on the flimsy built HV so ended up buying an S006. I replaced it last year with a new S007 and it is the bomb.

[msh58]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb MacSpikes:

I think you are not mad at all. I came from an M system (M9, then M typ something), but since I wanted autofocus for my subjects, I tried both Canon 1d and Sony/Hasselblad HV. I hated the Canon (solid body but lenses like toys), loved the Zeiss lenses on the flimsy built HV so ended up buying an S006. I replaced it last year with a new S007 and it is the bomb.

I also bought an S 006 last year as well as three lenses (35, 70, 120) and am very happy with the combo, great camera and a user interface very similar to my original SL. S 007 would be an obvious upgrade but I am rather saving to add a the Super Elmar 24 as the fourth lens.  The S lenses work well on the SL with an adapter even though the autofocus can be slow.

- Matti

[setuporg]

On 3/18/2021 at 12:05 AM, aksclix said:

I find myself playing with my S007 often.. more than the newest gfx 100s and 80mm f1.7

I've ended up doing the same when I got the X1D as the first example of MF but always wanted an S.  They are very different and the main problem now that one cannot realistically have all of M, SL, X1D and S lineups and keep them all up to date.  The good thing with S is once you get all the 10 lenses there's no more and the S3 will probably become the 503cw of Hasselblad, frozen in time like a beautiful butterfly in amber.  This is the reason I'm resisting the GFX line that will probably keep expanding in all directions.

[ardbeg]

Thank you for the feedback. I’m evaluating the camera hands on soon and will advise how that goes.

[tom0511]

Interested in your impressions!

[ardbeg]

Back after a delay. The original body I was going to evaluate fell through but I was able to source another gently used body with all the pieces/parts and a second battery. Big camera but very comfortable in the hand. Having used the 120 Apo Macro S exclusively on SL2 via adapter, the S007 definitely drives the lens oh so much faster and smoother. Shutter is not quiet by any means but has a satisfying "thunk" which reminds me of my film Hasselblad days. The framing/composition reminds me of my film SLR days many years ago (single focus point, et al.) which is familiar (I loved my Nikon N90s). So far, very pleased with overall operation. Looking at test shots later this evening on larger monitor. Waiting on my 30mm to get back from Germany with permanent AF motor replacement so wide angle will have to wait but so far, all good.

[ardbeg]

Have now had a day or so to evaluate some test shots, dynamic range improvement over SL2 is very apparent. Color out of the sensor is a bit different than SL2. Things I have been spoiled by on the SL2 are image stabilization, ability to move focus point (for eyes etc.) above center of frame, and higher resolution rear screen. Will need to trust the histogram even more so and relearn my focus / recompose habits with very shallow depth of field shots as I am occasionally missing track sharp focus on the eyes.

Unrelated, any thoughts on the 70mm? With a 30 and 120, a normal seems like a good eventual add-on. I could just do ~50mm FOV shots on the SL2 w/ my 50 Lux L but (ironically) the S lenses just don’t handle as much like boat anchors as the Lux does. Since in some forums the 50 Lux L lens and the 70 S lens are both described as similar to an M Lux in character (I’m very familiar with M Lux pre-ASPH and ASPH renderings as baselines), what are the subtle or not so subtle character differences between those near equivalent FOV S and SL lenses? 

Edited March 31, 2021 by ardbeg

[Vieri]

As always, it depends on what you shoot. You mentioned landscape, and if you plan on doing long exposure, then the Typ 007 is a no-go right off the start. Other than that, it's a great camera for everything else you plan on shooting with it

Best regards,

Vieri

[ocean2059]

9 hours ago, ardbeg said:

Have now had a day or so to evaluate some test shots, dynamic range improvement over SL2 is very apparent. Color out of the sensor is a bit different than SL2. Things I have been spoiled by on the SL2 are image stabilization, ability to move focus point (for eyes etc.) above center of frame, and higher resolution rear screen. Will need to trust the histogram even more so and relearn my focus / recompose habits with very shallow depth of field shots as I am occasionally missing track sharp focus on the eyes.

Unrelated, any thoughts on the 70mm? With a 30 and 120, a normal seems like a good eventual add-on. I could just do ~50mm FOV shots on the SL2 w/ my 50 Lux L but (ironically) the S lenses just don’t handle as much like boat anchors as the Lux does. Since in some forums the 50 Lux L lens and the 70 S lens are both described as similar to an M Lux in character (I’m very familiar with M Lux pre-ASPH and ASPH renderings as baselines), what are the subtle or not so subtle character differences between those near equivalent FOV S and SL lenses? 

The Summarit-S 70mm renders similar to Summilux-M ASPH 50mm and L but it has maybe a bit more gentle and smoother color and out-of-focus transitions. Per pixel level, the Summarit-S 70 doesn't have the biting sharpness of the latest APO-Summicron-M/L 50mm. I like mine very much and carry it in my backpack in all of my outings. Another lens that you may consider is Summicron-S 45mm, which could fit with your existing 30 and 120. The Summicron-S 45mm is the sharpest S lenses that I have used.

[alan.y]

15 minutes ago, ocean2059 said:

The Summarit-S 70mm renders similar to Summilux-M ASPH 50mm and L but it has maybe a bit more gentle and smoother color and out-of-focus transitions. Per pixel level, the Summarit-S 70 doesn't have the biting sharpness of the latest APO-Summicron-M/L 50mm. I like mine very much and carry it in my backpack in all of my outings. Another lens that you may consider is Summicron-S 45mm, which could fit with your existing 30 and 120. The Summicron-S 45mm is the sharpest S lenses that I have used.

😄 I would LOVE a Summicron-S 45mm but it doesn't exist. 

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[ocean2059]

Sorry, I meant Elmarit-S 45mm. My bad!