Nicht immer nur Kaviar ... (English Version)

[zeitz]

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39 minutes ago, thomas_schertel said:

Voigtländer Prominent

The reflex housing for the Prominent is the most useless piece of photographic equipment ever made.  Only one lens made, 100mm f5.5 with close focusing distance of 6.5 feet.

[thomas_schertel]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb zeitz:

The reflex housing for the Prominent is the most useless piece of photographic equipment ever made.  Only one lens made, 100mm f5.5 with close focusing distance of 6.5 feet.

Yes, the built in Kontur finder has markings for 100 mm and something with longer focal length. But they did not realize another lens. But it is nice to have.

Yours sincerely

Thomas 

[zeitz]

1 hour ago, thomas_schertel said:

something with longer focal length

A Kontur finder could be bought as a separate finder.  Kontur finders are neat devices.  I am surprised others did not use this approach - both eyes were open; one eye saw the frame line and the other eye saw the scene.

There was a 150mm lens planned, but it never materialized.  The rear element of the lens, being part of the back side of the reflex housing, greatly limited lens design.  The interchangeable lens was really only an interchangeable front element.

One normally wants reflex focusing / viewing for fast aperture lenses, long focal length lenses or close-up work.  The Prominent reflex housing provided none of this.

[pgk]

To move this thread forward, a snap of my collection of Grubb, Dublin lenses. These consist of 'Patent' Lenses including some for stereo work, Petzval lenses and Doublet lenses, and in the foreground a few later lenses from Sir Howard Grubb. In total lens production may have totalled less that 4,500 in around 50 years, of which perhaps ~400 were made by Sir Howard under his name, so they make Leica lenses look plentiful. Most have hard a hard life and have clearly had very heavy use. At least one may even have been repolished. Some degree of balsam separation is par for the course with the majority showing varing signs of it. Even so they are surprisingly capable even today. One or two are incomplete and even the glass has gone, waterhouse and washer stops are rarely still with their lenses, hoods can be missing and one has been modified with a later diaphragm retrofitted. To date I have tracked only around ~150 surviving lenses of which a handful are in museums. They cover formats from 12" x 10" to 3" x 3" (stereo).

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Edited January 31, 2024 by pgk

[pgk]

PS the above post image was shot on a 50mm Summarit ltm on an M9.

[willeica]

9 hours ago, pgk said:

To move this thread forward, a snap of my collection of Grubb, Dublin lenses. These consist of 'Patent' Lenses including some for stereo work, Petzval lenses and Doublet lenses, and in the foreground a few later lenses from Sir Howard Grubb. In total lens production may have totalled less that 4,500 in around 50 years, of which perhaps ~400 were made by Sir Howard under his name, so they make Leica lenses look plentiful. Most have hard a hard life and have clearly had very heavy use. At least one may even have been repolished. Some degree of balsam separation is par for the course with the majority showing varing signs of it. Even so they are surprisingly capable even today. One or two are incomplete and even the glass has gone, waterhouse and washer stops are rarely still with their lenses, hoods can be missing and one has been modified with a later diaphragm retrofitted. To date I have tracked only around ~150 surviving lenses of which a handful are in museums. They cover formats from 12" x 10" to 3" x 3" (stereo).

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Over 20, Paul. I must do a photo of my collection, which includes a rare aluminium lens from the 1890s. As you know, I live in Dublin and have 10 of them, which means that we have over 20% of known extant lenses between us. I have uncovered two more Grubb lenses in museum collections in Dublin and I believe there is another one in Waterford City- Mr Grubb Sr was from Portlaw in Waterford , born there in 1800. I have also discovered 80 waxed calotype negatives made by Thomas Grubb in the 1850s which are now on a farm 'somewhere in Ireland' and I am trying to get them to a safe harbour and then to exhibit them. The quality of the images (about 10x8 in size) is astonishing, given that they are over 170 years old. We have yet to determine whether they are huge stereo pairs as there are two images of the same scene in many cases.

I will try to do a similar group photo and post it here. The Grubbs were major optical designers for all kinds of instruments including telescopes, full observatories (they built the equipment for Vienna Observatory, domes and all, in Dublin), rifle collimating sights (which they invented), periscopes for the Royal Navy and this wonderful device, a coelostat, which was used to prove Einstein's Theory of General Relativity in 1919 

 

If I get time for a portrait shoot, I will post a picture of my lenses tomorrow. 

William 

[pgk]

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11 hours ago, willeica said:

Over 20, Paul.

Sadly not all are complete. A couple I have picked up because they have relevant parts such as a hood but are not usable. Fortunately the hood fits an existing lens and unlike some of the hand cut flange threads it does fit well. I assume that the brasswork was made using hand operated, steam powered machines which by today's standards is quite extraorinary. Of the ~150 I have tracked down as potentially still existing, perhaps 5% are missing glass or other significant parts whilst many of the Petzvals have no focus mechanism left. As you say they are now very old and I suppose that this is hardly surprising but it is a pity. I think that you have more variation and some rarities if such a term can be applied to lenses which are in themselves inherently rare!

Here's a test shot from an 1864 stero lens intended for 3" x 3" format images. It isn't perfect but is surprisingly usable on DX format even today.

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[willeica]

My 10 Grubb Camera Lenses. Just set out on the dining-room table. I've tried to boost the contrast to show details 

Front left to right 1. Early Aplanatic Lens possibly a C type but the aperture is bigger than normal, engraving is different to normal,  2. Early production C Type, with lacquer missing, 3. Normal C Type production Aplanatic, 4. A2 Petzval Type, 5. Ax Aplanatic, the smallest one made by Grubb.

Rear left to right:  1. Early Aplanatic lens (possibly B size) with Helicoid Focus (very rare), 2. Large D type Aplanatic, 3. Aplanatic Doublet with Waterhouse Stop inserted- also carries the name of Watsons who were London agents for Grubb at the time this lens was made, 4. A3 Petzval Type and 5 Very rare (only one ever seen) Aluminium Aplanatic with a diaphragm and orange coated lens element - possibly for scientific use.

I have washer stops and flanges for some of these lenses and a Waterhouse stop for the Aplanatic Doublet. The one I have actually used is the small Ax at front right. It produces superb images. The Aplanatics, which were made to Grubb's Patent, have tiny 'rice writing' engraving on the edge of the lens glass showing the serial number of the lens. The Petzval types, which are not made to Grubb's patent, have rack and pinion focus. This group ranges in date from the 1850s to the 1890s. The rarest ones are at the far left and far right in the back row. 

 

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And here is a small Grubb Ax Aplanatic lens on a 'Sliding Box' type camera which I found while cataloguing the collection of the Photographic Society of Ireland (founded in 1854 as the Dublin Photographic Society - Thomas Grubb was a founding member - defunct since the 1980s/90s) at our National Photographic Archive. The serial number of the lens indicates that it is from the 1870s (slightly later than my one), while the camera is somewhat earlier, from the 1850s or 1860s. The cataloguing project is still ongoing and I am hoping to find another Grubb lens which was listed as being in the collection about 30 years ago.

 

William 

Edited February 1, 2024 by willeica

[wlaidlaw]

On 3/10/2021 at 1:06 PM, pgk said:

Here's an odd one of mine. This is a classic British tailboard camera/lens/film holder. I think that the camera is probably post WWI and was made in Louis Gandolfi's time, but it is very difficult to date these cameras. The back looks original and is for something around quarter plate. So far the roll film holder shown is the nearest fit I've found albeit a bit tight. So it might have been for sheet film holders. Lens is a slightly earlier 1890s Taylor, Taylor and Hobson Cooke Series III with the rear replaced to provide a slightly longer focal length - the cap is probably later but fits perfectly. I'd hazard a guess that this was a customer ordered 'portrait' camera. [photo: M9 with 50/1.4 aspheric]

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School fotos. it was not until the mid 1960s, that I saw professional photographers using Rollei and Graflex Crown Century for these group fofos. 

Wilson 

PS as the lenses were often a bit too long to be able to fit in the whole frame in one shot, it would be cut and paste job. Oddly some boys seemed to appear on both halves, usually followed by a visit to the headmaster's office. One boy (the school joker), tried and failed to convince the head that he had a ghostly doppelganger. 😄 W.

Edited February 1, 2024 by wlaidlaw

[pgk]

16 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

School fotos. it was not until the mid 1960s, that I saw professional photographers using Rollei and Graflex Crown Century for these group fofos. 

Wilson 

PS as the lenses were often a bit too long to be able to fit in the whole frame in one shot .....

I remember the photographer at one of the places I studied using a large formal camera with a wide-angle lens then masking it down in the dark room. I think this was because it was what was available as he did a lot of technical work, but yes Gandolfis and similar were extensively used. Many (most of mine - I have 6) show significant use although in latter years the Gandolfi brother produced many which appear to have gone sraight into collections or storage because some appear which are clearly unused. Two of mine are non-foldable tailboards (graphic or portrait cameras) the rest are file or folding tailboards.

My aimpoint is to get mine up and running but to do so I will need 3 different lensboards/adapters to take the usable Grubb lenses. Last night I talked to someone able to cut the boards precisely and he lives within walking distance which is great. I will have to glue and finish them which I can do although it is time consuming.

[Pyrogallol]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

I remember the photographer at one of the places I studied using a large formal camera with a wide-angle lens then masking it down in the dark room. I think this was because it was what was available as he did a lot of technical work, but yes Gandolfis and similar were extensively used. Many (most of mine - I have 6) show significant use although in latter years the Gandolfi brother produced many which appear to have gone sraight into collections or storage because some appear which are clearly unused. Two of mine are non-foldable tailboards (graphic or portrait cameras) the rest are file or folding tailboards.

My aimpoint is to get mine up and running but to do so I will need 3 different lensboards/adapters to take the usable Grubb lenses. Last night I talked to someone able to cut the boards precisely and he lives within walking distance which is great. I will have to glue and finish them which I can do although it is time consuming.

Any piece of plywood will do for making lens panels for lenses you do not have a brass flange for.

Cut a hole a fraction smaller than the thread of the lens, then file it open until the lens thread cuts its own thread into the plywood.

The middle lens is a 120mm Summar.

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[pgk]

41 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

Any piece of plywood will do for making lens panels for lenses you do not have a brass flange for.

Cut a hole a fraction smaller than the thread of the lens, then file it open until the lens thread cuts its own thread into the plywood.

I can/have done. But the problem is that I have different cameras with different fronts requiring different panels. I'm trying to get things sorted so that I can 'standardise' lens panels by having adapter plates so that I have most versatility, if that makes sense. So I have a couple of 10" x 8" cameras for the larger format lenses with interchangeable 10" x 8" and 5" x 4" backs, but of course they do take different lens panels. Same with the half-plate cameras which take fractionally different backs and lens panels, Gandolfi did not 'standardise' much until quite late on and even then .....

[Pyrogallol]

I started off by being given (do I have to say “gifted” now?) two Edwardian half plate cameras with 3 1/4 by 3 1/2 inch panels. Ever since when I have made a camera I have used the same size panel so that they are all interchangeable, even on fixed focus cameras that are built for one specific lens, such as this one.

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[thomas_schertel]

Pentaconsix

 

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Yours sincerely
Thomas

[willeica]

One of a number items which I acquired recently. This is an awkward camera to photograph as it does not stand up, so I have provided 3 images from 3 different perspectives.  It is a Berning Robot Star camera, one of only 50 of this type made for the Swedish Air Force in the 1950s. It hangs upside down like a bat in the aircraft and the lens, a Schneider Kreuznach 40mm f1.9 Xenon set to infinity, takes photographic images through a mirror device which points downwards in the aircraft. It has the usual clockwork wind through the large knob at top which allows up to 40 24mmx24mm images to be taken. It uses 35mm film in two metal cassettes, similar to the Leica FILCA cassette. The aperture and shutter dials could be operated with a gloved hand and the shutter release can be connected to a remote cord. There were two such cameras at a recent auction in Sweden. The other one had 3 Crowns on a plate at the back. I got this one cheaper at the auction because it did not have the 3 Crowns. However, the camera was only produced for the Swedish Air Force. All of the functional parts of the camera appear to be working. A rare item that was produced for a specialised purpose. 

 

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William 

[sandro]

Fascinating find, William!

Lex

[willeica]

10 minutes ago, sandro said:

Fascinating find, William!

Lex

Thanks, Lex. There are Luftwaffe pre-war and wartime versions and also a version for the Danish Air Force, but the Swedish one appears to be the rarest of them all. I got this for much less than the Collectiblend figures.

William 

[wlaidlaw]

1 hour ago, willeica said:

 

1 hour ago, willeica said:

One of a number items which I acquired recently. This is an awkward camera to photograph as it does not stand up, so I have provided 3 images from 3 different perspectives.  It is a Berning Robot Star camera, one of only 50 of this type made for the Swedish Air Force in the 1950s. It hangs upside down like a bat in the aircraft and the lens, a Schneider Kreuznach 40mm f1.9 Xenon set to infinity, takes photographic images through a mirror device which points downwards in the aircraft. It has the usual clockwork wind through the large knob at top which allows up to 40 24mmx24mm images to be taken. It uses 35mm film in two metal cassettes, similar to the Leica FILCA cassette. The aperture and shutter dials could be operated with a gloved hand and the shutter release can be connected to a remote cord. There were two such cameras at a recent auction in Sweden. The other one had 3 Crowns on a plate at the back. I got this one cheaper at the auction because it did not have the 3 Crowns. However, the camera was only produced for the Swedish Air Force. All of the functional parts of the camera appear to be working. A rare item that was produced for a specialised purpose. 

 

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William 

 

I just turned down an offer to buy this Robot camera's predecessor for £2500, the electrically wound large cassette (200 images?) version that was tail mounted and rearwards pointing in Junkers JU87 dive bombers. Sadly it looked to me to be in un-restorable condition otherwise I would have bought it and sent it to Alan Starkie. The electric part was severely corroded and the camera body damaged. The lens was fungus filled. Sometimes in the JU87, they also mounted in a mid position but pointing forwards, a Leica 250GG reporter with a 24 volt MOOEV motor drive. I was also offered a non-working MOOEV electric motor drive for rather a lot of money but as it cannot be fitted to my 250FF Reporter, it would have been pointless buying it, even if I could get it repaired. 

Wilson

Edited February 26, 2024 by wlaidlaw

[willeica]

2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I just turned down an offer to buy this Robot camera's predecessor for £2500, the electrically wound large cassette (200 images?) version that was tail mounted and rearwards pointing in Junkers JU87 dive bombers. Sadly it looked to me to be in un-restorable condition otherwise I would have bought it and sent it to Alan Starkie. The electric part was severely corroded and the camera body damaged. The lens was fungus filled. Sometimes in the JU87, they also mounted in a mid position but pointing forwards, a Leica 250GG reporter with a 24 volt MOOEV motor drive. I was also offered a non-working MOOEV electric motor drive for rather a lot of money but as it cannot be fitted to my 250FF Reporter, it would have been pointless buying it, even if I could get it repaired. 

Wilson

I presume it was this one, Wilson https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Berning-Robot/Robot-375.html

William 

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Hallo,

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[wlaidlaw]

12 hours ago, willeica said:

I presume it was this one, Wilson https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Berning-Robot/Robot-375.html

William 

Well the remains of one of those anyway. 😀

Wilson