Roger Vorbeck Posted March 9, 2021 Share #1 Posted March 9, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Got my first ever Leica M body last year. It's a M2. It came bundled with a Summicron 50mm F2 Collapsible. I'm really enjoying this combo, but I'm a 35mm shooter. I've found a Summaron 35mm 3.5 for sale in my country, for a decent price. It's serial number is the following: 1176436. However, I know that users have trouble defining their lens models, because they were produced in a large numbers. I've checked this one's number on a lot of different sources and foruns, but I failed on identifying it. The weird part is that checking through this website: https://reddotcamera.net/leica/serial-number-tool/ and in this page: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summaron_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:3.5 The information I have is that this lens is identified as a Summicron 50mm f/2, build in the year 1954 and a Summicron 5 cm 1:2 (M), respectively. Why is that? Has anyone here ever seen one of these? I wanted this to be the M2 version (to activate the 35mm framelines) but I have no clue what this all means. Any guesses are welcome. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 9, 2021 Posted March 9, 2021 Hi Roger Vorbeck, Take a look here Summaron 35mm F3.5 M Mount serial number?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
david strachan Posted March 9, 2021 Share #2 Posted March 9, 2021 Hello Roger If you use the correct Ltm to M adapter, then the correct 35mm framelines will be shown in the viewfinder. The lists of lens production dates are often incorrect...it's hope and a prayer getting the correct date from the numerous lists around the internet. ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Vorbeck Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted March 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, david strachan said: Hello Roger If you use the correct Ltm to M adapter, then the correct 35mm framelines will be shown in the viewfinder. The lists of lens production dates are often incorrect...it's hope and a prayer getting the correct date from the numerous lists around the internet. ... Hey Dave, thanks for the reply. Actually, this lens is M Mount! Even more intriguing! Hope someone here can solve the mystery! Best regards. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted March 9, 2021 Share #4 Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) The f3.5 Summaron in M mount looks like this, with the distance scale engraved at 90 degrees to other lenses. But I don’t think there is an easy way to tell if it is the first version that was made before the M2 and brings up the 50mm frame lines or the later one that brings up the 35mm frame lines. Mine is the first bringing up 50mm and is 1177*** a bit later than the one you are looking at so it might be the 50mm frame version, unless it was converted later. The best way to check is to put it on a body and see what comes up. Maybe the seller could do that and tell you? There has been an earlier discussion about this, which I cannot find at present. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 9, 2021 by Pyrogallol Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318717-summaron-35mm-f35-m-mount-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4156741'>More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted March 9, 2021 Share #5 Posted March 9, 2021 Hello and welcome to the Forum, As always, serial numbers at Leica remain a mystery.On the Leica Wiki lists there is a summaron with a number close to yours (#1176510) which confirms that a small series of Summaron M has been built between two series of Summicron 50mm...! https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summaron_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:3.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 9, 2021 Share #6 Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) I have this lens ( Summaron 3.5 cm f3.5 M ) with serial number SN 1288301 which dates it as being from 1955. It will not bring up the frame lines for 35mm on any camera that has them, just 50mm (+ 75mm where that combination is available). It was obviously made before the M2 was available and could, of course, be used with a separate viewfinder, eg SBLOO, on the M3. This all seems logical if you consider the context of the time in which it was produced. I have no idea when Leica started to produce a version that brought up 35mm frame lines , but I imagine it would have been around the time that the M2 was introduced. Just an addition from a book I have here, the M2 version (with 35 mm frame line triggering) was introduced at Photokina in 1958. So any lens with an SN number from after 1958 should probably have the ability to bring up the 35mm frame lines. William Edited March 9, 2021 by willeica 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stray cat Posted March 9, 2021 Share #7 Posted March 9, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 14 minutes ago, willeica said: I have this lens ( Summaron 3.5 cm f3.5 M ) with serial number SN 1288301 which dates it as being from 1955. It will not bring up the frame lines for 35mm on any camera that has them, just 50mm (+ 75mm where that combination is available). It was obviously made before the M2 was available and could, of course, be used with a separate viewfinder, eg SBLOO, on the M3. This all seems logical if you consider the context of the time in which it was produced. I have no idea when Leica started to produce a version that brought up 35mm frame lines , but I imagine it would have been around the time that the M2 was introduced. William That's interesting, William. I just tested mine, serial number 1289100, also from 1955 and it brings up the 35mm frame lines on my m6ttl - I double checked that with my Summicron IV. Might this lens have been modified at some time? (I bought it via this forum from our dear friend Pico). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stray cat Posted March 9, 2021 Share #8 Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, stray cat said: That's interesting, William. I just tested mine, serial number 1289100, also from 1955 and it brings up the 35mm frame lines on my m6ttl - I double checked that with my Summicron IV. Might this lens have been modified at some time? (I bought it via this forum from our dear friend Pico). OK. Just to answer my own question, a close look at the lugs on the rear of the lens confirms that one of them has been carefully filed down a small amount. I wonder if Pico did this or some former owner? I guess we'll never know. However I did buy the lens from him with an M2, so my guess would be that he did the filing (which seems meticulously done) to use the lens on that camera. Edited March 9, 2021 by stray cat 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 9, 2021 Share #9 Posted March 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, stray cat said: That's interesting, William. I just tested mine, serial number 1289100, also from 1955 and it brings up the 35mm frame lines on my m6ttl - I double checked that with my Summicron IV. Might this lens have been modified at some time? (I bought it via this forum from our dear friend Pico). Probably was. The book I have quotes LFI 4 page 18 from 1958 about the introduction of the M2 version. I imagine that the same job could be done today by a skilled technician. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Vorbeck Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share #10 Posted March 9, 2021 Hello and thanks everyone for the contributions over the topic. So, based on what Pyrogallol said about his, this one I'm looking into will problably bring up 50mm framelines too. Now the only question I have left is: why the serial number from this one would reffer to a summicron? This page i quoted on my first post notes that (https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summaron_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:3.5), but I just have no idea why. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 9, 2021 Share #11 Posted March 9, 2021 Obviously the entry in the „Wiki“ is not exact. Other lists - e.g. by Thiele - identify your number 1176436 as a 1:3.5/3.5cm Summaron from 1955. Perhaps the whole sequel which Thiele mentions from 1175001 to 117800 is too large and a part of them were Summicrons. All these lists are never completely exact and individual items may falsify them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted March 9, 2021 Share #12 Posted March 9, 2021 Hello, To get a 35mm frame light you must have a version with s/n over 1 600 000 you will see that the engraving is different/opposed compared to the precedent version. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318717-summaron-35mm-f35-m-mount-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4156940'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 9, 2021 Share #13 Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Roger Vorbeck said: Hello and thanks everyone for the contributions over the topic. So, based on what Pyrogallol said about his, this one I'm looking into will problably bring up 50mm framelines too. Now the only question I have left is: why the serial number from this one would reffer to a summicron? This page i quoted on my first post notes that (https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summaron_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:3.5), but I just have no idea why. Cheers. You need to be careful in look at lists of Leica serial numbers. Many lists contain items which were exceptions and the top experts acknowledge this. Hartmut Thiele lists the range 1175001- 1178000 as being for this lens the SOONC-M 3.5cm f3.5. So the lens you are looking at came from a range which is appropriate. There may well have been other models in this serial number range, but you can be assured there is nothing strange about the serial number on this lens. I cannot account for other lists you may have looked up. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 9, 2021 Share #14 Posted March 9, 2021 Yes Roger, your Summaron very probably will bring up the 50mm frame, unless modified by filing (which is a very easy job) ; only the very last ones, as depicted by JC, do bring up the 35 frame : they are relatively uncommon (even if they start a little before 1.600.000 ... my one is 1.595.031) and rather easy to recognize for their various distinguishing details (the "big" red dot is the more evident) . if you look for a lens to use, maybe is better to take a good "50 frame" item and have the lug filed... you destroy "originality", but is not such a precious item and several has been modified this way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 9, 2021 Share #15 Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) Superb lens if clean! Sharp as anyone would ever need and - a big plus point - almost perfectly rectilinear. As has been said the pre-'M2 lenses bring up the 50mm frame lines unless filed-down. We've discussed the various versions of the 'pre-goggled' Summaron here a few times and there are many variations of the model. Just for fits'n'giggles here's my 1954 example (ser.# 1.150.659) on my M Monochrom; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Philip. Edited March 9, 2021 by pippy 3 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Philip. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318717-summaron-35mm-f35-m-mount-serial-number/?do=findComment&comment=4157347'>More sharing options...
m410 Posted March 13, 2021 Share #16 Posted March 13, 2021 Truly beautiful photograph of a truly beautiful camera and lens. Great to see them together. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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