lct Posted March 7, 2021 Share #1  Posted March 7, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Would you like a Pancake M lens? Not another Summarit looking like a poor man's Summicron. Not a backup or a clone to the old Summaron either. Just a pancake lens smaller than the CV 35/2.5 and capable to compete with the best 35/2.8 glass? (Summarit-M 35/2.5 & Elmarit-C 40/2.8) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318683-pancake-m-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4155877'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 Hi lct, Take a look here Pancake M lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted March 7, 2021 Share #2 Â Posted March 7, 2021 I have the Summaron and I wouldn't want anything thinner. It's already difficult to focus with just having the little knob. Getting one's fingers onto the focusing collar is impossible. What would be the advantage of having something even smaller? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share #3  Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, fotografr said: What would be the advantage of having something even smaller? Same as 80 years ago i guess (Elmar 35/3.5) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318683-pancake-m-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4155940'>More sharing options...
Tp2000 Posted March 8, 2021 Share #4  Posted March 8, 2021 I have the CV35mm CS and the Summaron. Both great lenses, but they do require some handling. Would I get a Leica equivalent of the CV35mm - maybe, but I do love the rendering and colour of the VM one and the price point is hard to beat for something that often finds itself in a pocket just in case. The 35mm 2.8 Summaron (I think @Keith (M) has one)  has always intrigued me for size too. Plenty sharp enough.....why not that for a remake? (I seem to recall it has been mooted for a remake?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted March 8, 2021 Share #5  Posted March 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, Tp2000 said: I have the CV35mm CS and the Summaron. Both great lenses, but they do require some handling. Would I get a Leica equivalent of the CV35mm - maybe, but I do love the rendering and colour of the VM one and the price point is hard to beat for something that often finds itself in a pocket just in case. The 35mm 2.8 Summaron (I think @Keith (M) has one)  has always intrigued me for size too. Plenty sharp enough.....why not that for a remake? (I seem to recall it has been mooted for a remake?) Indeed I do.  An absolute jewel of a lens.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318683-pancake-m-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4156174'>More sharing options...
lct Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share #6  Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) The Summaron 35/2.8 has the same size as the Summarit 35/2.5 more or less so what would it have to succeed whilst the Summarit did not? Edited March 8, 2021 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 8, 2021 Share #7  Posted March 8, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 15 hours ago, lct said: Would you like a Pancake M lens? Not another Summarit looking like a poor man's Summicron. Not a backup or a clone to the old Summaron either. Just a pancake lens smaller than the CV 35/2.5 and capable to compete with the best 35/2.8 glass? (Summarit-M 35/2.5 & Elmarit-C 40/2.8) Answer - yes, but ..... would digital sensors provide acceptable (to Leica) 'quality' given a lens path from a 35/50mm lens which has its exit pupil so close to the sensor as the 40mm Emarit-C I wonder? I suspect that this may be a problem, which is a pity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share #8  Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, pgk said: Answer - yes, but ..... would digital sensors provide acceptable (to Leica) 'quality' given a lens path from a 35/50mm lens which has its exit pupil so close to the sensor as the 40mm Emarit-C I wonder? I suspect that this may be a problem, which is a pity. I don't know about the 40/2.8 but my Elmar 35/3.5 from 1948 is even smaller and can do that on the M240. (M240, Elmar 35/3.5, f/8, no lens profile, no vignetting nor color shift correction) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Edited March 8, 2021 by lct 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318683-pancake-m-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4156364'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 8, 2021 Share #9 Â Posted March 8, 2021 2 hours ago, lct said: I don't know about the 40/2.8 but my Elmar 35/3.5 from 1948 is even smaller and can do that on the M240. (M240, Elmar 35/3.5, f/8, no lens profile, no vignetting nor color shift correction Whilst ypou might find the performance of a 1948 Elmar acceptable, I'm not sre that Leica would consider it up to their requirements of a modern design. I like the idea (and older lenses) though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share #10  Posted March 8, 2021 I was just suggesting that some pancake lenses can work fine on digital Ms without significant issues associated to exit pupil distance but i may be wrong . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesL Posted March 9, 2021 Share #11  Posted March 9, 2021 Perar 21/4.5 on M240.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318683-pancake-m-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4156600'>More sharing options...
darylgo Posted March 9, 2021 Share #12  Posted March 9, 2021 Leica has spoiled me, I was a big fan of slr pancake lenses until trying Leica optics.  LCT, your copy of the 35 elmar is much sharper than I believe my lens can render, the whole image is sharp. My lens would be more impressionistic. Leica has small lenses but I wouldn't mind if they produce a line of tiny lenses.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share #13  Posted March 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, darylgo said: Leica has spoiled me, I was a big fan of slr pancake lenses until trying Leica optics.  LCT, your copy of the 35 elmar is much sharper than I believe my lens can render, the whole image is sharp. My lens would be more impressionistic. Leica has small lenses but I wouldn't mind if they produce a line of tiny lenses.  My Elmar 35/3.5 is a coated version. I pushed contrast in PP but did not apply extra sharpening. It is softer at wider apertures though. Now i'm pretty sure Leica could do much better with modern glass. Only problem is would real Leica men  be interested in a pancake lens...  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted March 9, 2021 Share #14  Posted March 9, 2021 My copy of the lens is uncoated, the light bounces from optic to optic, front element to back element, round and round it goes ultimately arriving at the sensor with gauze like imagery. Fortunately, I have little haze to stop all but a trace of light transmission, nonetheless it is a magical lens and I am hoping to keep it until it's hundredth birthday.  How does one graduate to be a "real Leica man"....is this a secret society?     Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted March 9, 2021 Share #15  Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) What is the focal lenght range that is pyhsically possible to make a pancake lens of and not to be slower than f/2.8? Edited March 9, 2021 by mirekti Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share #16 Â Posted March 9, 2021 38 minutes ago, darylgo said: How does one graduate to be a "real Leica man"....is this a secret society? Just people who believe that M means rangefinder . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted March 9, 2021 Share #17  Posted March 9, 2021 I would buy a 21-24 or 28 , fixed f/8 pancake lens, oh yeah. You forget about f/stops, you shoot zone focus and voila. Beautiful for my street photography - snapshots. The problem is that, AFAIK, you never get a superb IQ, it's never sharp enough ( I mean as any modern Leica lens at f/8). But coming from DSLR, my 35/2.8 biogon looks a pancake compared 😆 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share #18  Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, mirekti said: What is the focal lenght range that is pyhsically possible to make a pancake lens of and not to be slower than f/2.8? If you mean in M or LTM mount, from 24mm (Aporia 24/2) to 40mm (Elmarit 40/2.8) i would say but i may be missing many ones. Edited March 9, 2021 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted March 9, 2021 Share #19  Posted March 9, 2021 I had Color Skopar 35 2.5 PII. It was next to pancake and still normal kind of handling lens. Except, every time I was checking aperture after few minutes, it was off   Looking at images from MS-Optics M and Minitar-1 true pancakes, it tells me the same. Pancake and image quality are getting close @f8 and less.   1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelmer Posted March 9, 2021 Share #20  Posted March 9, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 10:56 PM, lct said: Would you like a Pancake M lens? Not another Summarit looking like a poor man's Summicron. Not a backup or a clone to the old Summaron either. Just a pancake lens smaller than the CV 35/2.5 and capable to compete with the best 35/2.8 glass? .... Yes, compact 35/2.8 would be perfect for me 🙂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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