Review: The New Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm F2 ASPH.

[alainD]

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14 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Don’t get me started Alain

...

 

😇.. Alain!

 

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[wlaidlaw]

I have accepted an improved offer for my 35 ASPH Summicron (I got the offer up by £350) and put an APO 35 on order. Supposedly the first batch arrives in the UK on April 30 but I don't know if I got my order into the first batch or not. 

Wilson

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by wlaidlaw

[romualdo]

On 3/6/2021 at 10:11 PM, M10Alpine said:

Simply too good to resist. Put in an order today....  😍

Question is do I keep my FLE or ditch it. I think I have 5-6 35mm lenses.... Sentimentally the FLE is very dear to me. Today set up for a afternoon stroll. 

"I hope within this month. I’ll reserve one for you.

I’ll let you know when it arrives."

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what a coincidence!! Both Gerhard Richter & Cindy Sherman have had major exhibitions at GOMA (Gallery of Modern Art) here in Brisbane (Australia) in recent years

[wlaidlaw]

Back in stock at Leica Mayfair, so mine should be in the post to my dealer, hopefully to collect tomorrow or Wednesday. I was a bit surprised given how late I put my order in, that I am the only person ordering from my local dealer Park Cameras in Burgess Hill, about 6 miles away. It is not the dealer I usually buy from (Ffordes) but Park Cameras offered a much better trade in for my 35 ASPH Summicron. 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Leica Mayfair must have sold all their stock of 35mm APO lenses direct to customers, with few to none going to dealers. Dealers have now been told they will not receive any stock until 28th May. Not good management of expectations, as my dealer was told just at the end of last week, to expect their first delivery at the beginning of this week. A tad deflating. 

Wilson

 

[Guest]

As a m262 user and rangefinder fan this lens is a dreadful failure.

Its a lens for someone else and leica have ignored me and any other rangefinder users.

I would never buy this lens even at 75% discount because its just made for the EVF brigade with maybe 15% of its cost involving a contraption that allows a closer focus..

Also nobody seems to have compared it with the zeiss distagon or voigtlander apo ?? which i find very convenient for leica.

[Guest]

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5 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

As a m262 user and rangefinder fan this lens is a dreadful failure. Its a lens for someone else and leica have ignored me and any other rangefinder users.

Interesting point of view. You deliberately decided to buy an M camera without life view. Now you seem to complain that you can't use the close focus option this lens offers. You knew that already when you bought your camera. While this lens was not yet around, it must have been clear to you that, for example, you were not able to use an achromat for close-up photography with a rangefinder camera without live view. Nothing has changed with the arrival of this new lens.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Studienkamera said:

Interesting point of view. You deliberately decided to buy an M camera without life view. Now you seem to complain that you can't use the close focus option this lens offers. You knew that already when you bought your camera. While this lens was not yet around, it must have been clear to you that, for example, you were not able to use an achromat for close-up photography with a rangefinder camera without live view. Nothing has changed with the arrival of this new lens.

Nothing has changed except every lens before the 35mm APO was made for me,all of them since the m mount came out in the 1950's.

But now leica have introduced a lens for somebody else.

[wlaidlaw]

5 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Nothing has changed except every lens before the 35mm APO was made for me,all of them since the m mount came out in the 1950's.

But now leica have introduced a lens for somebody else.

There are a number of lenses that Leica make which are of no interest to me, so I don't buy them and cannot see any point about complaining over lenses made for other people, who do want or need them. I doubt that I will use the close focus of the 35 APO very much, it is the resolution on my M10-R I am buying it for, not the close focus. 

Wilson

[adan]

Steve, it's not quite that bad (and certainly not new).

After all, the original M3 rangefinder was limited to about 0.9-1 meter - and then those nasty gnomes in (old) Wetzlar began making lenses that focused to 0.7m.

The 1960s-70s 21mm Super-Angulons focused closer than the M2/M4s 0.7m-rangefinders (down to 0.4m). So did the very-early-production 21mm Elmarit-M - I wish I had one of those!

Leitz sold a Zeiss "15mm Hologon für Leica M" - 0.2 m, 1972-1976

The 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar-M from 2006 (before live-view) focuses to 0.5m. And like the 35 APO, has a safety-detent at 0.7m on the focus ring, as a reminder of where the RF quits working.

And of course the 35 APO will rangefinder-focus and view exactly like a 35 non-APO, in the range 0.7m-infinity. Just with (possibly) better performance.

Ferret & fish, 2002, "no live-view" M4-2, 21mm Super-Angulon f/3.4 at 0.4m, Velvia 50)

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___________

Admittedly not standard Leica production, but I also "rolled my own" close-focusing 24mm Elmarit-M ASPH by adding an E55 close-up lens, and doing some tests to get a table of "scale setting vs. actual focus distance."

Street Girl, 2002, "no live-view" M4-P, 24mm Elmarit-M-ASPH + close-up diopter, ~0.35m, Ilford Pan F

Also, original 15mm and 25mm scale-focus Cosina/Voigtlanders (1999) - down to 0.45m, at least. I used both of those for a while on film Ms, and the 15mm on the no-live-view M8.

And I love my 1974 Hasselblad SWC with its scale-focus 38mm Biogon-C T* f/4.5 (down to 0.26m). No live-view there either, although one can get a ground-glass back. But like you, i prefer the optical viewfinder.

Now, the 35mm APO is not for me, because it is honking large and heavy. I like my 35mm M lenses to be <200g, and the APO weighs almost as much as my Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5! But the optional close-up range is not the issue.

Edited May 5, 2021 by adan

[jonoslack]

8 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

As a m262 user and rangefinder fan this lens is a dreadful failure.

Its a lens for someone else and leica have ignored me and any other rangefinder users.

I would never buy this lens even at 75% discount because its just made for the EVF brigade with maybe 15% of its cost involving a contraption that allows a closer focus..

Also nobody seems to have compared it with the zeiss distagon or voigtlander apo ?? which i find very convenient for leica.

HI Steve

So it would have been okay if it only focused down to 0.7m? But the voigtlander apo focuses down to 0.35m so presumably that has the same problem?

I never use the EVF with my 35 APO anyway, pretty easy to estimate distances.

But the APO does everything every other 35 M lens does on your M262 so I don't really see the problem! 

[LBJ2]

11 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

As a m262 user and rangefinder fan this lens is a dreadful failure.

Its a lens for someone else and leica have ignored me and any other rangefinder users.

I would never buy this lens even at 75% discount because its just made for the EVF brigade with maybe 15% of its cost involving a contraption that allows a closer focus..

Also nobody seems to have compared it with the zeiss distagon or voigtlander apo ?? which i find very convenient for leica.

I think the 35/2 APO is in general seen as a Huge success both optically as well as likely to be seen as a landmark accomplishment that may spawn a new category in Leica M optics development, Category IV. I am confident there are more M APOs to come.

The Voigtlander 35/2 APO is also another stellar lens added to Voigtlander's APO accomplishments of late, another APO induced renaissance if you will. 

Close-focus while yet another technical watershed for tiny Leica rangefinder glass, is to me icing on the cake. 

From what Peter Karbe tells us...I don't think it's a stretch to believe that modern APO technology is the next step to achieving even more perfect optics. 

Happy Cinco de Mayo ! 

Edited May 5, 2021 by LBJ2

[Guest]

14 hours ago, adan said:

Steve, it's not quite that bad (and certainly not new).

After all, the original M3 rangefinder was limited to about 0.9-1 meter - and then those nasty gnomes in (old) Wetzlar began making lenses that focused to 0.7m.

The 1960s-70s 21mm Super-Angulons focused closer than the M2/M4s 0.7m-rangefinders (down to 0.4m). So did the very-early-production 21mm Elmarit-M - I wish I had one of those!

Leitz sold a Zeiss "15mm Hologon für Leica M" - 0.2 m, 1972-1976

The 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar-M from 2006 (before live-view) focuses to 0.5m. And like the 35 APO, has a safety-detent at 0.7m on the focus ring, as a reminder of where the RF quits working.

And of course the 35 APO will rangefinder-focus and view exactly like a 35 non-APO, in the range 0.7m-infinity. Just with (possibly) better performance.

Ferret & fish, 2002, "no live-view" M4-2, 21mm Super-Angulon f/3.4 at 0.4m, Velvia 50)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

___________

Admittedly not standard Leica production, but I also "rolled my own" close-focusing 24mm Elmarit-M ASPH by adding an E55 close-up lens, and doing some tests to get a table of "scale setting vs. actual focus distance."

Street Girl, 2002, "no live-view" M4-P, 24mm Elmarit-M-ASPH + close-up diopter, ~0.35m, Ilford Pan F

Also, original 15mm and 25mm scale-focus Cosina/Voigtlanders (1999) - down to 0.45m, at least. I used both of those for a while on film Ms, and the 15mm on the no-live-view M8.

And I love my 1974 Hasselblad SWC with its scale-focus 38mm Biogon-C T* f/4.5 (down to 0.26m). No live-view there either, although one can get a ground-glass back. But like you, i prefer the optical viewfinder.

Now, the 35mm APO is not for me, because it is honking large and heavy. I like my 35mm M lenses to be <200g, and the APO weighs almost as much as my Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5! But the optional close-up range is not the issue.

Very good points well made,,damn you!!!   

I suppose i simply do not agree with leica putting so much effort into a feature that does not work on a rangefinder camera.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, jonoslack said:

HI Steve

So it would have been okay if it only focused down to 0.7m? But the voigtlander apo focuses down to 0.35m so presumably that has the same problem?

I never use the EVF with my 35 APO anyway, pretty easy to estimate distances.

But the APO does everything every other 35 M lens does on your M262 so I don't really see the problem! 

Fair point,i just think its a misguided direction for leica to take with this lens and its not attractive for me even if i had that much money.

The voigtlander apo is simply too big for a medium speed 35mm lens so is also not for me.

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

Very good points well made,,damn you!!!   

I suppose i simply do not agree with leica putting so much effort into a feature that does not work on a rangefinder camera.

It works on the following rangefinder cameras:

M-240, M-240P, M-10, M-10P, M-10M, M-10R and probably one or two I missed.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

It works on the following rangefinder cameras:

M-240, M-240P, M-10, M-10P, M-10M, M-10R and probably one or two I missed.

Wow i never knew that.

The close focus can be used without any add on to the rangefinder focus system.

Great news.

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

Wow i never knew that.

The close focus can be used without any add on to the rangefinder focus system.

Great news.

The accessory evf is not an add on to the the rangefinder system. It’s an add on the the live view mechanism. That’s all it needs to work for you.

[Guest]

Your correct of course.

I thankfully have the m262 which has neither live view or EVF capability .

But good luck to you and others that want to avoid the rangefinder on a rangefinder camera.

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

Your correct of course.

I thankfully have the m262 which has neither live view or EVF capability .

But good luck to you and others that want to avoid the rangefinder on a rangefinder camera.

I use the rangefinder 99 1/2% of the time. I don’t need focus closer than .7 meters.

Edited May 6, 2021 by jdlaing

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[wlaidlaw]

The poster above sounds like someone who bought a film MP and then complains because Leica brought out the Fotos app, which doesn't work on film cameras. I was delighted when live view was introduced on the M240, as it meant I could use with adapters, my various Zeiss CX/Y, Leica R and V and Rolleiflex/Zeiss QBM lenses. It meant I could use a tilt-shift lens without guesswork. Buying an M262 was in my mind, like buying the world's best race horse, except it now only has three legs. Yes the M240 was a bit bulky but it was work in progress, which we have seen developed to a camera the same size as a film M with the M10 series (even smaller in my case as due to a bad right thumb, I use motor winders on my film M's). One of my current favourite lenses on my M10-R is the superb 21-35 Vario Elmar R and another is the excellent Zeiss 28-85 Vario Sonnar. No live view = no possibility to use these wonderful lenses. 

Wilson