Leica M (or Q) for Pro and Serious Work

[Olaf_ZG]

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I never have ever shot tethered. My work was weddings, and there, tethered is not needed, nor is it for journalism, documentary and so on. Here a M or Q will shine.

Studiowork equals tethering (at least imho) and here the M or Q doesn’t really shine.

20.000 images per session? Why even bother to photograph? Better film it…

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

5 hours ago, xavierg said:

i dont care who you shot or about you at all. none of that was personal. my point is that if you work in this giant part of the industry it does to a certain extent matter. screenshot attached to verify that i am telling the truth about key art shoots. please also check art streibers instagram he speaks to it extensively. it's frustrating as a person on my side to try to get any relevant info about leica because the discourse surrounding leicas is this idea of achieving some sort of photographic purity that a person like me could never achieve. if it is elitist for me to say that the advertising industry exists and has requirements that you are pretending don't exist and are not serious, then i am sorry. you have successfully pointed out that leica users are not elitist.

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Give me a break! Of course it's personal. You come here and in your first ever post write "i can pretty clearly tell where your experience in the industry ends". A statement based on nothing but conjecture your one sentence attempts to write off 35 years of hard work experience and, might I say it, a very successful career as a working photographer. That's personal. You could have come here and just written the rubbish you wrote in a post. But no. You not only quoted me, you tried to comment on me and you were both incorrect and way out of line. You were wrong. I've done exactly the work you're doing and more. So much more.

And please! Don't come back and go on about how I have denigrated what you shoot. You were the one who came here letting me and others know that what you shoot and how you shoot should be considered more serious. You were the one, who in your first post  pretty much stated that unless there's a cable attached and you're in studio it isn't *serious* (the title in this thread). Maybe re-read your fist post before you accuse others of "the discourse surrounding leicas is this idea of achieving some sort of photographic purity that a person like me could never achieve."? This is a Leica forum, for God's sake. For Leica owners and users. Of course we go on about how much we love shooting with Leica's. We just dropped 20K on a camera and lens! What did you expect? The Spanish inquisition.

Trolls like you come into enthusiast forums and use terms like *it's not personal* to defend yourselves when you damn well know what you write is. Then you claim you can't get relevant information and it's you who's the victim like the tone of your second post out of 2. But you never once asked a question or showed any hint hat you wanted to participate to learn, to grow. You came here all high and mighty. The advertising shooter, letting all us know we're no worthy. I called your BS and still do.

And you should care who we are. There are people here with more experience on their little finger than you and I, who asked nicely will give you as much time and information as you could possibly want. You didn't ask. You told. Maybe next time if you want an answer you could ask a question. Is the M11 able to shoot tethered?  See, not that hard.

Leica M's are not the ideal tool for every genre of professional photography. But neither is the gear you use. That's why we don't all use the same camera. Your Phase is pretty much useless in a war zone shooting conflict or journalism. the question was *can an M be used for pro and serious work?*. The question was not * Is an M the iseal camera for a tethered studio shoot?*

I've shot advertising and products. Plenty of it. Tethered and un tethered. On my own and in a room full of art directors. Owned my own spaces and had my own teams. It's engaging, challenging technical work that keeps a lot of people off the bread line. I am not saying commercial studio work isn't useful, or even important to some. But let's be honest here. The job is serious. The gear too. The client's especially. It's a particular type of pressure. But most of the results end up in the bin after a month or two on display. Most of it is scrap by the time the magazine is read or the web page scrolled. It's replaced as fast as you can shoot it. And you can keep shooting until you get exactly what the AD wants, while surrounded by a gaggle of make-up, models and assistants in a nice warm studio, with a coffee machine. It's purely about making money. No one's looking at what you shot today in six months let alone 5 years. That's why I called it fluff. Oh, and I hated it. So there's that.

To even imply that this type of work is more serious or requires more skill than a single shooter, working hard on their own to produce GREAT work day after day, just because they don't palm half of the decision making process off to an AD or their camera is smaller, cheaper or whatever, is ludicrous and frankly insulting. You shoot something that makes a client laugh or cry. That's serious. Or a wedding where there are NO second chances, no reshoots. Where you do great work every time in 14 hour days, solo. That's serious. Don't get me started about conflict photographers. Embedded for month in a unit trying to manage their shooting while not getting shot them selves. That's serious. What you do is no more or less difficult than baby photography, travel photography, landscapes, portraits, weddings or architecture.

You want answers, then ask questions.

Gordon

p.s. Thanks for the shot numbers. Didn't realise a modern Phase would shoot that many shots in a day.. They sure didn't when I was in studio. Even my modern Fuji's and HB's can't shoot that fast for that long. Basically over a 10 hour day that's just pulling video frames, almost. Not my bag, personally. A few questions. How does a client properly check 19K images in less than a day? That's why you shoot tethered, right? And this is a single set? Or multiple sets with multiple cameras, shooters and teams? Even with two of us at a 14 hour wedding with cameras vastly faster than any Phase One we've never come back with more than 5000 frames, combined. I'd be extremely interested to learn how you manage to get 19K from a single set, photographer and camera in one day.

[Farrell Gallery]

6 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Yes the M11 has that. Not the M10. And not the Q2 either.

Thanks! I know my Q2 lacks that....I thought the M10 and M11 had it, thanks for the clarification  

[andy87111]

On 2/3/2021 at 6:18 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I have used M's, as well as other systems as a working photographer for many years. Shot hundreds of weddings with a pair of M9's. Commercial work with M-P 240's and M10's as well. Nothing special here. They're cameras. Can be used by working photographers like any other system. The only real barrier is cost of entry. I'm sure someone will eventually waffle on about how the lenses are crafted by angels and hand polished by virgins to achieve micro contrast that is unrivaled. A 4 page discussion on *3D pop* will ensue. The next genius will tell us how if it doesn't have Sony's eye tracking and 200 frames a second silent shooting it's just a piece of shit that only dentists want or use. Some especially bright spark will chime in letting us all know that the sensor is old tech and clients will reject it because it's obviously crap. Somewhere around page 6 it'll morph into a heated debate about depth of field. Meanwhile a few lucky ones will just do another shoot with an M-P and send off the images with an invoice.

Cameras aren't and never will be professional. That's the job of the idiot holding them. And just because a working photographer uses them doesn't make them better or special. Pretty much every model of camera from almost every brand has been used by working photographers and amateurs alike. And most working photographers aren't producing better work than many amateurs or stressing their gear as much. The only thing we generally do is shoot more. You choose a Leica to please yourself, not your clients. At the same time that's a totally valid reason to choose an M to work with. And if you really want to make it work then 95% of the time it will.

I don't get the "more professional shoots" line. They are or aren't. Successful working photographer don't grade their clients. They all get the best we have, of which camera choice is maybe 5%. Nearly EVERYTHING is more important than the camera to most working professionals. Maybe 2% of shoots have specific gear needs to make it work, although 50% of photographers think gear is vital and 90% think an M is limited in what it can do. All wrong. Some people seem obsessed by what they *think* a Leica can't do instead of the many many things they can do. There is absolutely no special reason to choose an M over any other camera to work with. And few reasons not to. You want a cool story but the reality is it's no more special than any other brand. Bummer eh?

I use Leica cameras for my work because they're pretty and I can afford them.

Gordon

Greatest post ever about this topic ! Made my day 🙂

[Betsy Wollheim]

I originally used a Nikon in art school (an excellent camera with excellent lenses.) One of my fellow students had a Leica M4. After carrying my Nikon around all day, I always had pains in my shoulders. It was an early all-metal Nikon (I was in school in 1969), and my fellow student lent me his Leica for one day. After one day carrying the M4, I was hooked. It's lighter, and quieter than any SLR. I'm a small woman, and these things matter to me. Light, quiet, elegant and unobtrusive. Leica rules. I now have an M4, an M3, and an M6, but as I'm older, I don't quite trust my eyesight, so I want an autofocus camera. The Q seems perfect to me.

 

[LeicaR10]

Bettsy Wollheim,  The M cameras are as you well know are most excellent.  When I was in school many moons ago, we had to use the schools cameras...Leicas.  Like you, I had Nikons and several decades ago went exclusively to Leica cameras and lenses.  Never looked back.  The Q is a superb tool.  You will find the AF and 28mm Summilux lens to render in an amazing way.  You won't regret getting a Q.  Happy Holidays!  r/ Mark

Edited December 24, 2022 by LeicaR10

[David Zalaznik]

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I also spent a more than 30 year career using primarily Nikon gear. I brief stint using an M6 but then the newspaper, along with the rest of the world, switched to digital. As mentioned earlier, Leica was slow to the game. Now retired, I do freelance and personal projects and also purchased Leica M10 and M Monochrome. the photo included is with the M10 on assignment for the Washington Post.

Challenge was keeping fish guts off of the camera and lens.

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[mark r.]

bottom line is the photograph..that last one by David is great, it takes thousands of tries to get one good one like that

[David Zalaznik]

15 hours ago, mark r. said:

bottom line is the photograph..that last one by David is great, it takes thousands of tries to get one good one like that

Thank you Mark!

[dpitt]

What a heated discussion in this thread!
Let me first state that I am not a professionaI, but I can relate to the passion for Leica’s and Leica M’s in particular.  And I think keeping the passion alive  is important to be a good professional. If your gear helps with that, it is one more reason to use it.

Some of the attraction most of us feel for Leica is hard to understand from the outside. Many of my friends and relatives will never get it, even if they take making pictures seriously. They still find Leica expensive, weird, hard to use (manual focus…), limited etc. Heck, I did not even understand it fully when I bought my first Leica. All I wanted was some camera that would be smaller and lighter than my Nikon and would make pictures that are at least as good.
The first time I tried the M rangefinder, I really liked it and I never looked back. The results were good and got better with practice, and the limitations were not as restricting as I feared initially. Now it is my preferred way of shooting. Only when I have to, I use a DSLR e.g. for macro or long tele stuff. 

The OP asked about professionals using M or Q camera’s.  I think there are more than we think. Probably most of them will have other gear to complement the M in area’s that are outside the M’s comfort zone. As a professional, it would be evident to choose the right tool for the job. 

I am looking forward to hear more from the pro’s on this forum.

[Kiwimac]

I worked as a pro for a while. 
 

Clients are paying you for the end result. They mostly don’t care how you get it and it’s your job to use the appropriate tool. 
 

If you can deliver the end result using an M11 or a Q2 etc then great. Do so. 

Just don’t use those for something for which they aren’t suited. 
 

Some cameras are the Jack of all trades. The M and the Q aren’t those cameras.

 

[Kim Dahl]

I work as a professional photojournalist.  I can say for sure.  Neither Q nor M will be your bread and butter camera.  But both will be good cameras to keep your photographic work alive.  Both are very inspiring cameras.  I use M, but over the years, Nikon or Canon have been my cameras I've lived on.  So neither Q nor M should be the first camera you buy.  Certainly not if money matters.  If not, just buy.  What I'm writing doesn't mean leica M and Q are bad - they're great cameras for what they're good at.  Just like a 400mm f2.8 is a great lens for football.  As an example.

[lucy63]

1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said:

I work as a professional photojournalist.  I can say for sure.  Neither Q nor M will be your bread and butter camera.  But both will be good cameras to keep your photographic work alive.  Both are very inspiring cameras.  I use M, but over the years, Nikon or Canon have been my cameras I've lived on.  So neither Q nor M should be the first camera you buy.  Certainly not if money matters.  If not, just buy.  What I'm writing doesn't mean leica M and Q are bad - they're great cameras for what they're good at.  Just like a 400mm f2.8 is a great lens for football.  As an example.

Sarah M Lee..Guardian photojournalist uses Leica M for her work.

https://sarahmlee.com

[Herr Barnack]

On 2/3/2021 at 4:02 AM, LondonL said:

Hi all,

A question about the M10, or any M digital or Q Leica camera really. How many of you are pro photographers (get paid for your images) or do serious photo projects and choose to use an M or Q ahead of any other camera brand? I'm not really interested in the standard travel/family/street images which frankly, any camera can capture well, its more aimed at those of use your work for specific serious work or projects.

Why do you choose the Leica, do you have other gear for more professional shoots? A client never cares about how an image was made, they just want good photography.

Be interested in your comments and personal stories

If you will take some time to look through back issues of Leica Fotografie International magazine, you will find a lot of photo projects that European based professional photographers have shot using both digital M cameras and the q and Q2.

As for the M camera platform, it is the choice of the vast majority of Magnum photographers, who have ascended to the pinnacle of professional documentary photography.

Both the above are ringing endorsements for both the M and Q cameras for professional use IMHO.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[Kim Dahl]

I think it is important that we are completely honest here about the use of Leica M and Q. I know a few who use Q and M - but only as a supplement to Nikon, Sony or Canon.  (LeicaSL?) - I have looked at the website you.  They are nice pictures but most are still pictures and there is also a category with iPhone pictures…   Of course I hope he can make it.  I also know a photographer who only photographs famous people and uses the Q2 - probably mostly because the Leica gives status and it is a discreet camera.  But there aren't many photographers of that type.  But my opinion is you shouldn't buy a Leica Q or Leica M and expect it to be the only camera you need as a professional (living) photographer.  Because it cannot be done.  But as a supplement to another piece of equipment.  It's fine there.

[chris7273]

On 2/3/2021 at 12:18 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

 

I use Leica cameras for my work because they're pretty and I can afford them.

Good summary 🙂 

[David Cantor]

On 2/10/2021 at 1:17 PM, Cobram said:

That's why, everywhere I go, I take my Olympus Trip 35. No batteries, always working (for decades without any servicing at all). 

 

I'm wid you Fred

[cdnchris]

I suppose I shouldn’t resurrect this thread but I did want to say thank you to everyone that contributed. It was helpful to me and the way I think about gear. 

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[charlesphoto99]

I pretty much use Leica M 90% of the time now for paid (when I get it) work, and personal projects. My friend who shoots product and technical certainly doesn't, nor another friend who shoots journalism and industry and hangs out of helicopters all of the time. I certainly wouldn't in those case either, though I could make it work, if I wanted to, but then I'm very quick and handy with M's with many years of experience. And the biggest mistake would to be brand new to a system and go out and try and shoot the job of a lifetime. Do what you know first, what you are hired of, what is your vision. Ease into new platforms and ways of seeing. Some meld to the M instantly, others never, and others it just takes time and lots and lots of practice. M's can be a pain sometimes, but for me it's the more organic, vicarious nature of the image that's the payoff. Esp the M10 M - until the client asks for the color versions that is, lol. At the end of the day, people that think a change of gear will make them a better photographer are living a lie. It will only enhance and define the skills, mindset and intention that you have already got set in place. A new piece of gear can sometimes lead to a new way of seeing, a discovery you might say, but you need the talent and discipline to make that more than just a quick fix until the next thing comes along. 

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[irenedp]

It depends on your line of work. I use an M9 and a 10r for my documentary work when I have to walk long distances because they are very light. Most of my next book, which is on pre-publication phase, was shot with the Ms. 

But I don’t do events or weddings or photojournalism.  Probably then I would have a couple Nikon bodies (I do keep a D850, but the 24-70, the 70-200 annd an 200-500  are on loan to my daughter who does nature). 

So, can you do professional work with a Leica M? Yes. Said that, depending on what you do there might be better tools out there.