Review: Leica Noctilux 50mm f1.2

[pedaes]

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50 minutes ago, wizard said:

but certainly not manufactured in small numbers

You only have to look at what they spend on advertising and sponsoring big sports events to see this must be true.

[Ouroboros]

4 hours ago, lookbook said:

... of course you are absolutely right!
Peeing against the wind is not a good idea.

But to put one or the other straight is sometimes appropriate!
Or are we here on a religious event and it's about the right belief?
: )

It often seems that way!   I once had a v4 f1 that I bought  to use for wedding photography.  In practice, I found the Nikon 50mm f1.2 ais a much easier lens to use for fast moving wide aperture work and I had more success with it than the Noctilux. The Noctilux v4 handling was too slow and unbalanced for me  and I couldn’t be bothered with it.

This new f1.2 could tempt me to give it another go, but I’m not by any means a religious person.  I’ll see what the Leica Clergy make of it first.

[T25UFO]

2 hours ago, wizard said:

Last summer, when all the shops were closed, you could buy many Rolex watches from official dealers at reduced prices and without waiting list, because they were desperately trying to sell at least some watches.

That is certainly true.  Also, vastly reduced air travel due to Covid meant that the airport outlets were selling far less so that stock founds its way back to normal retailers.

2 hours ago, wizard said:

Rolex deliberately shortens supply to keep prices up

Most premium brands (of anything) do the same.  Just produce enough to make sure supply is slightly less than demand.  Of course Morgan Cars took this to extremes back in the day when the waiting list for a new Morgan was seven years!

[wattsy]

55 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

This new f1.2 could tempt me to give it another go, but I’m not by any means a religious person.  I’ll see what the Leica Clergy make of it first.

What are you waiting for? St Jono the Evangelist has already spoken.

[fisheess]

7 hours ago, monte said:

Frankly I'm not surprised to see such an attempt to flip the lens.   I was offered the new Silver Noc 50/1.2 by Leica Singapore (not a Leica dealer) but only in a "bundle" with the ASC Leica M10P set (which I presume is not selling well).  I find it tragic that Leica is resorting to such sales strategy and do not place any weightage on the loyalty of genuine Leica users/supporters.   It's like buying a Rolex sports watch from a watch dealer (not Rolex itself) who would only sell you the watch if you bough another not sought after watch.... the distinction here is that Leica Singapore itself is doing this rather than a Leica dealer.... I don't think Rolex would allow that.  

As I know of every Rolex Dealorship in CN/HK does this. Rolex does not allow them to sell higher than the official price, so they use this method to get more profit.  

[mmradman]

27 minutes ago, fisheess said:

As I know of every Rolex Dealorship in CN/HK does this. Rolex does not allow them to sell higher than the official price, so they use this method to get more profit.  

And the sellers can get away with it with or without parent company approaval.  Paints the picture of a market ideal for selling overpriced items.

[lookbook]

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb shirubadanieru:

I tried the canon, it’s not great and I sold it after a few months; each person gets to pick / shoot with whatever they like. The canon was not great for me, but maybe it’s for others. Same with the Nocti. And yes, I’ll def. be getting the Noctilux, which to me is an awesome remake

you do it!

the new one will be better than the old one - the highly praised old one was very bad!

[lookbook]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb wattsy:

The latter for sure. Nobody should kid themselves that the main attraction of this lens is a special look or feel. It's the opportunity to own a nicely made reissue of a significant (I'd write legendary but I think it is overdoing it) lens in Leica's history. If the very same lens was made by Cosina for £2k, there would be a fraction of the interest in it. If it was made in China and called Lucky Nocti 1.2, most people here would dismiss it as junk.

Personally I'm most excited by the old style plastic case that it comes in. The reissue box that the silver edition comes in is also a nice touch. It's a shame all Leica lenses don't come in boxes like that.

... i have not written anything against the new edition.
but it should be clear that the old, legendary lens was never good -
and if it had been manufactured by cosina, it would have been called inferior earlier
and never made again years later.

[Ecar]

21 minutes ago, lookbook said:

the new one will be better than the old one - the highly praised old one was very bad!

 

10 minutes ago, lookbook said:

but it should be clear that the old, legendary lens was never good -
and if it had been manufactured by cosina, it would have been called inferior earlier
and never made again years later.

In fairness, I think there was a lot of sample variation (hand-ground elements and all), just like the 35/1.4 AA and ... many CV lenses until not too long ago 😉

Let's not forget these were extreme designs for the available technologies at the time.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Ecar

[lookbook]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Ecar:

In fairness, I think there was a lot of sample variation (hand-ground elements and all), just like the 35/1.4 AA and ... many CV lenses until not too long ago 😉

Let's not forget these were extreme designs for the available technologies at the time.

exactly the problem had other lens manufacturers also -
but they made better lenses with the same prerequisites.

 

[wlaidlaw]

I had a discussion with a lens designer at Solms in 2007 (who better remain nameless), soon after the article in LFI explaining why aperture shift was inevitable with the 35 ASPH Summilux. I asked why my chrome one had very little and showed him the focus charts to prove it. He said that an ideal version of the ASPH required element placement of around 1 micron accuracy, which was not reproducible in production. There was therefore a big element of luck in how good these lenses were. He whispered that they had learnt lessons from Zeiss on their ZM series, where the design was tailored to achievable manufacturing tolerances and this had almost eliminated sample variation. He said that future designs would take this philosophy into account and not assume heroic abilities in the Leica workers. 

Wilson

[mmradman]

2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I had a discussion with a lens designer at Solms in 2007 (who better remain nameless), soon after the article in LFI explaining why aperture shift was inevitable with the 35 ASPH Summilux. I asked why my chrome one had very little and showed him the focus charts to prove it. He said that an ideal version of the ASPH required element placement of around 1 micron accuracy, which was not reproducible in production. There was therefore a big element of luck in how good these lenses were. He whispered that they had learnt lessons from Zeiss on their ZM series, where the design was tailored to achievable manufacturing tolerances and this had almost eliminated sample variation. He said that future designs would take this philosophy into account and not assume heroic abilities in the Leica workers. 

Wilson

Words to count angels on the head of a pin have been spoken..

[shirubadanieru]

4 hours ago, lookbook said:

... i have not written anything against the new edition.
but it should be clear that the old, legendary lens was never good -
and if it had been manufactured by cosina, it would have been called inferior earlier
and never made again years later.

Konica actually did remake their similarly ‘bad lens’ lol which also happens to be a f1.2 (Hexanon 60mm) and now costs the same as the noctilux f1.2 remake. No one has called it inferior and it’s still fairly popular in the used market today.

[Ecar]

6 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Konica actually did remake their similarly ‘bad lens’ lol which also happens to be a f1.2 (Hexanon 60mm) and now costs the same as the noctilux f1.2 remake. No one has called it inferior and it’s still fairly popular in the used market today.

True. Although the original LTM is anything but "bad" and, to be fair, the new version was treated to a serious optical make-over in the re-issue process.

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, Ecar said:

True. Although the original LTM is anything but "bad" and, to be fair, the new version was treated to a serious optical make-over in the re-issue process.

Exactly, my point is that neither that one nor the noctilux are bad like the comment I was replying to was saying about the Nocti, but have their own unique rendering that some people love and that's exactly why they got remade 😎 

Edited February 5, 2021 by shirubadanieru

[MT0227]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:04 PM, wattsy said:

Well, yes, I said as much earlier in the thread, Jono.

I'll go out on a limb though and suggest that this is not a lens for colour digital. To play to its strengths, I think you really need to load up with black and white film.

I own the 50 f/1 (v4)....I just don't think I can handle the soft center in comparison.   I also shoot a lot of Tri-X,  Mr.  Puts indicates that Very fine details on coarse-grained film will be lost in the noise level of the grain clumps; with modern fine grain B&W films these de-tails are visible but quite fuzzy.   I just don't think the 50 1.2 is for me;  I'll stick with my 50 f/1, 50 DR Summicron and 50 Collapsable Elmar-M

Edited February 5, 2021 by MT0227

[johnbuckley]

I’m looking forward to it, for a single reason, which I’ll get to in a moment.

I currently own the 50 APO, the 50 Summilux, and the SL 50 Summilux, as well as the 75 Noctilux. In the past, I have owned the f/1 Nocti and the 0.95 Nocti (which I sold to buy the 75 because a) I was over-invested in 50 glass and b) believed a specialty lens in a specialty focal length (for me) would get more use. It has, BTW, but for an unexpected reason: using it with the SL makes it about 90% more effective.)

Importantly for this discussion, I also once owned the CV Nokton, and liked it, but sold it because it was so big and heavy, I stopped lugging it around. If another reputable lens maker (yes, I’d dismiss a Chinese miracle lens) came out with a Noctilux competitor that was small enough, and light enough, to plausibly be used in the street, I would buy it. What appeals to me about this new/old lens is that it is practically the same size as the Summilux 50. I clearly like variety in the way lenses look and function, and have the 50 APO for razor sharp in-focus rendering and beautiful bokeh, and the two Summiluxes for low-light high performance. And of course the 75 Nocti for the true magic it provides in portraiture and other uses. 
 

But I am also committed to that soft focus look of Noctiluxes, new and old, and I really would like to be able to shoot with one on the street without feeling like I’m carrying a bazooka, and without having to worry about a sprained wrist. As Jono says, it’s two lenses in one: sharp enough from  2.8 on, dreamy soft wide open. It will be, like all Noctiluxes, a lens for specialty usage. But most important, it will be a lens for street portraiture. The old adage of the best camera being the one you have in hand comes to mind when remembering, this is a Noctilux I can put on an M and actually take out for street use. Will I risk disappointment, and the realization six months in that I’m not using it as expected? Yes, of course, but I’m not afraid to sell a lens later if it hasn’t worked out. My expectation is that this will be, like all Noctiluxes, the right lens for some situations, and I’m excited it exists and glad Leica went for it. 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by johnbuckley

[wlaidlaw]

I have three of the fast Chinese lenses, the TT Artisans 21/1.5, the 7Artisans 28/1.4 and the 75/1.25 from the same company. The 28 is excellent at F2 or smaller apertures and perfectly acceptable at f1.4, albeit no Summilux. I did not expect a lot from the 21 but again it really surprised me how good it was. It is noticeably crisper at f4 than my Super Angulon-R (a late 3 cam one). The weakest by some margin is the 75. It really is very soft at 1.25 and nearer focus and does not get better on stopping down, to the extent I might have hoped. I don’t use 75mm a whole lot and have a 75 Summarit that is almost unused over the last 14 years, so could not justify the Noctilux. I might consider the new fast Voigtlander 75, which gets good write ups but probably on balance not,  due to lack of use. The lens at around that length I really like is my 85/1.5 Summarex but one certainly needs to have had one’s Weetabix that morning, as it is far from light (800g). 

I have definitely decided the new 1.2 50 Noctilux is not for for me. The only lens on my current horizon is the 50 APO. I would buy S/H except for the flare problems suffered by the earlier ones and identifying which ones have been upgraded or were made post-modifications. I will probably therefore, wait until I get to France and tap my usual German lens supplier, who neither faints nor screams when I mention the word “discount” 😄

Wilson

[alainD]

I picked up my Noctilux f/1.2 Silver yesterday. Here is the first picture I took with it at the Leica store in Marseille with my M10 monochrom (Leitz edition).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pedaes]

33 minutes ago, alainD said:

I picked up my Noctilux f/1.2 Silver yesterday.

Congratulations! Works well on the Leitz edition.Aperture?

Edited February 6, 2021 by pedaes