M6 TTL Millenium BP, Dragon 2000 or new MP BP??

[Michael.Randy]

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Hi, i need some advice

Is it worth to get M6 TTL Millenium, Dragon 2000 or MP Black paint?

Problem is

Dragon has 0.85 mag, i wear glasses also i heard that mp has better vf, not much flaring

Second, the price of those m6 limited are close to new MP Black paint

 

Regards

Mike

 

[jaapv]

I can confirm that a M6TTL viewfinder is not the best one that Leica ever made. I sold my (regular) one because of it.

[plaidshirts]

What focal lengths do you shoot?

50mm is perfect on my M6ttl with .85 ungraded MP viewfinder. 
I wear glasses too and find that 35mm is better with a .72 VF on my M2 or the .68 on my M-D 262.

Since you say the prices are close, I’d get the MP which has a timeless look and modern parts without the baggage of an unrepairable meter.  

[plasticman]

4 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

... without the baggage of an unrepairable meter.  

The 'unrepairable meter' story took off pretty quickly - I've only heard of a couple of examples (of how many tens of thousands of cameras sold?) 

I'd simply recommend the OP chooses the best fit for his/her style of shooting. I think if the price really is close, I'd also choose the MP. But I wouldn't be worrying about the light meter.

[a.noctilux]

I'd buy MP ( x.85 and x.72 which I had used for years) or better yet M-A which I use since 2014 without any trouble (just as stated somewhere "why 38 counter stopping" that is all ).

Those viewfinders are just pleasingly unique comparing to my older Ms.

[plaidshirts]

1 hour ago, plasticman said:

The 'unrepairable meter' story took off pretty quickly - I've only heard of a couple of examples (of how many tens of thousands of cameras sold?) 

I'd simply recommend the OP chooses the best fit for his/her style of shooting. I think if the price really is close, I'd also choose the MP. But I wouldn't be worrying about the light meter.

Overblown for sure but true nonetheless. All I’m saying is given all the conditions I’d go for the MP.

Edited January 28, 2021 by plaidshirts

[Michael.Randy]

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Hi guys,

So does this mean that the limited edition m6 has the same vf with the regular m6??

 

Regards

[a.noctilux]

4 minutes ago, Michael.Randy said:

Hi guys,

So does this mean that the limited edition m6 has the same vf with the regular m6??

 

Regards

I think so,

someone would say that VF upgrade to MP's VF is possible and maybe not so expensive.

That said why don't we go directly to MP with it's unique and original VF 😇.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, plaidshirts said:

Overblown for sure but true nonetheless. All I’m saying is given all the conditions I’d go for the MP.

A bit like "Chinese Whispers", everyone has heard of the meter problem but very, very few have actually experienced it or even know someone who has.

[logan2z]

Another vote for the BP MP - or black chrome M-A and a handheld meter, if you don't mind going that route.  IMO, the M6 and it's limited editions are starting to make less sense as prices approach M-A/MP pricing.  

[Michael.Randy]

Thanks guys for the advice

 

Regards

[plasticman]

...unless you like having an integrated light meter, of course 😁

[philipus]

I have had a Millennium since 8 years now and it is true that its viewfinder suffers from whiteout. I used mine for a few years and found it annoying in perhaps 30% of the situations. But in all situations it was such that moving the camera a bit by taking a step to the side for instance fixed the problem. Eventually I sent the camera to Leica. They installed the little lens that the TTL (and perhaps the M6, I don't know) lacks but which is in the MP. Since that my VF never flares.

I'm obviously biased but to me this particular commemorative model makes sense to buy. An MP is only an MP so to speak where as the Millennium means something more. It's only words of course. I've recently seen that the prices are extremely high now for the Millennium models. I bought mine in mint condition for 1800 Euros, but if I were in the market now I might go for the MP since I would have to have the VF upgraded which adds cost.

In terms of the design/Leica geekery I definitely prefer the Millennium over the MP. It's black paint everywhere including on the rear door, the ISO dial looks nicer, and it always comes with the M3 rewind, which I really like, and with the classic beautiful engraving on top. Plus it has TTL flash metering which I find really useful. Correct me if I'm wrong but the MP doesn't do TTL.

Just my two cents of course.

Philip

 

 

5 hours ago, Michael.Randy said:

Hi guys,

So does this mean that the limited edition m6 has the same vf with the regular m6??

 

Regards

[ktmrider2]

MP does not do "thru the lens electronic flash" exposure.  TTL can also just mean "through the lens metering" which the M5, M6, M6 TTL, M7 and MP do.  TTL was added to the M6 name when the M6TTL was introduced to indicate electronic flash metering as the original M6 was Leica's second or third body to have a through the lens meter (M5 and Leica CL were previous models with a built in meter behind the lens.).  

I purchased an M6TTL shortly after it was introduced and remember it ate batteries at an astounding rate.  I returned it to Leica and they fixed something.  At the time its use of batteries was a common complaint and lots of M6TTL cameras had to be returned for "fixing".  I would assume that M6TTL's still being used have had the fix.

Back in the old days (1960's and early 1970's), some cameras came with a meter but the sensor was not behind the lens so "through the lens" was a way to tell the consumer what they were buying.

I have always found it interesting that the standards for the MP seem to me to be "up to" the standards to which the classic M3/2/4's were built.  That changed with the M4-2 and all subsequent models down to the MP.

Edited January 28, 2021 by ktmrider2

[philipus]

Yes I read about battery eating too prior to purchasing mine. Mine has never eaten batteries though. In fact, I don't even switch it to off when I don't use it and the batteries last very long. I suspect they may have changed the design before the Millennium was made.

16 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I purchased an M6TTL shortly after it was introduced and remember it ate batteries at an astounding rate.  I returned it to Leica and they fixed something.  At the time its use of batteries was a common complaint and lots of M6TTL cameras had to be returned for "fixing".  I would assume that M6TTL's still being used have had the fix.

[Matlock]

34 minutes ago, philipus said:

Yes I read about battery eating too prior to purchasing mine. Mine has never eaten batteries though. In fact, I don't even switch it to off when I don't use it and the batteries last very long. I suspect they may have changed the design before the Millennium was made.

My M6TTL has never eaten batteries. I suspect it is those who used 2x SR44 or LR44 instead of the recommended Lithium 1/3N.  

[ktmrider2]

I used to buy a new camera whenever Leica or Nikon introduced a new model.  Thus I purchased a M6TTL to replace the M6.  Although I did not frequently use the flash automation, I bought the new model.  My memory is that I had to replace the battery about every three months in the M6TTL compared to every two or three years in the standard M6.  I sent the M6TTL to Leica and when it came back batteries seemed to have the longevity I had come to expect from the M6.  Again, I never had another problem with it.

Now, I prefer the classics like the M2 or M4 (probably age looking back longingly at my youth).  I am sure which ever Leica you are using or want to use, the choice is or will be fine.  I use digital models and often find myself using it in the "A" setting but with film cameras I prefer incident metering and manual settings.  

 

[plasticman]

On 1/28/2021 at 7:21 PM, ktmrider2 said:

I purchased an M6TTL shortly after it was introduced and remember it ate batteries at an astounding rate.  I returned it to Leica and they fixed something.  At the time its use of batteries was a common complaint and lots of M6TTL cameras had to be returned for "fixing".  I would assume that M6TTL's still being used have had the fix.

So not only does the M6TTL meter fail and has a worthless viewfinder, now I learn it also eats batteries! This has been a truly enlightening thread. It's a sheer mystery anyone ever managed to take a photograph with these worthless pieces of junk.

Seems strange to me that I've never suffered any of these maladies with mine...

edit: I was going to leave my post with just this sarcasm, but on reflection, I think it's important that visitors reading these threads genuinely know what utter rubbish can be spouted by people who seem to consider themselves experts on Leica cameras. I've owned two M6TTL cameras, and neither of them have 'eaten batteries' in any way - I haven't changed the battery in my Millennium for more than 2 years, maybe longer. I deplore the way these idiotic myths get traction. Tens of thousands of M6TTLs are "still being used" (that phrase that makes it sound like they are ancient cameras - whereas they were still being manufactured just 19 years ago). Ridiculous.

Edited January 29, 2021 by plasticman

[Michael.Randy]

On 1/29/2021 at 1:04 AM, philipus said:

I have had a Millennium since 8 years now and it is true that its viewfinder suffers from whiteout. I used mine for a few years and found it annoying in perhaps 30% of the situations. But in all situations it was such that moving the camera a bit by taking a step to the side for instance fixed the problem. Eventually I sent the camera to Leica. They installed the little lens that the TTL (and perhaps the M6, I don't know) lacks but which is in the MP. Since that my VF never flares.

I'm obviously biased but to me this particular commemorative model makes sense to buy. An MP is only an MP so to speak where as the Millennium means something more. It's only words of course. I've recently seen that the prices are extremely high now for the Millennium models. I bought mine in mint condition for 1800 Euros, but if I were in the market now I might go for the MP since I would have to have the VF upgraded which adds cost.

In terms of the design/Leica geekery I definitely prefer the Millennium over the MP. It's black paint everywhere including on the rear door, the ISO dial looks nicer, and it always comes with the M3 rewind, which I really like, and with the classic beautiful engraving on top. Plus it has TTL flash metering which I find really useful. Correct me if I'm wrong but the MP doesn't do TTL.

Just my two cents of course.

Philip

 

 

Thanks Philip, i do agree, about the Leica geekery, i am in love with the apearance of it, plus maybe i am just a little too fussy, but i like the bigger shutter dial like the M6 TTL, not like the classic, faster to adjust

 

I wonder if Leica still can install the lens you mentioned in vf? 
 

Regards

Mike

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[ktmrider2]

So, did you buy your M6TTL within a couple months of its introduction?  Later models had the battery problem corrected during manufacturing.  And I have owned every film Leica up to the M7 purchasing the M4-2, M4-P, M6 and M6TTL new while owning numerous M2's, M4's, one M5, one CL, and one M3.  I have no reason to trash any model.  However, I sent my M6TTL back to Leica within 3 months of purchase due to the battery issue.  It came back a few weeks later and the issue was cured under warranty.

Just because you have not experienced the issue does not mean it has not occurred.  Again, did your M6TTL's come from several years into the manufacturing cycle or was it one of the earliest M6TTL's made?

Edited January 30, 2021 by ktmrider2