M10M gate coming?

[mmradman]

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7 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Congrats Malcolm. Unfortunately, mine has now become about as useful as a door stop. I don't trust it to give me an image without artifact, so i have stopped using it completely and gone back to converting my M10-R images to B&W. Zero problems with that camera, regardless of the image manipulations in either LR or PS. No doubt about it, I got a serious lemon.

We usually hear of sample variation when we talk about lenses. Perhaps there is more irregularity between individual optical elements and mechanical components that are components of the optical cell that manufacturers are ready to admit where assembling perfectly adjusted lens can be difficult thing to do..

With digital camera it should be possible to calibrate output to match reference.  Unlike physical components electronic signals can be adjusted with lens sweat and fingerprints. If the electronic board doesn’t meet required standard it should be consigned to reject bin.

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[mmradman]

3 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Right hand side, lifting the shadows ever so slightly....and voila, a nice dark line down the entirety of the image. Most expensive door stop I've ever purchased 😞

That is faulty sensor, either adjustment or replacement in order.

[jplomley]

I sent images to Leica demonstrating the line on the top centre, the line down the right hand side, and the extreme waffle pattern when straightening an image. Response below:

Dear Mr. Plomley.

Thank you for the pictures. We checked the files.

On the image you are referring to as showing a fault, you can see an effect caused by the production process of the sensor. Due to the sensor size, the photolithographic structuring of the surface takes place in two separate exposure steps, one each for the left and right half of the sensor. Therefore, minimal deviations in the behavior of the treated areas are inevitable and a property of a large image sensor. The tolerances are set so that this is not visible in "normal" photography and image editing. However, the effect may appear especially when using high ISO numbers combined with strong brightening of underexposed image areas in post-processing.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards

Thomas Schmidt

 

Leica Camera AG
Customer Care – Support
Am Leitz Park 5 / D-35 578 Wetzlar / Germany
www.leica-camera.com / info@leica-camera.com  
Telephone +49(0)6441-2080-111 / Fax +49(0)6441-2080-339

 

There is no reference to the images with the waffle pattern, or the line down the right hand side. I have therefore responded to Mr. Schmidt and asked for his explanation on those artifacts and what the recommendation is. I advised I would like to send in the camera for inspection. That was three days ago and no response.

To say I am beyond disappointed is an understatement. As someone that has been shooting leica M for the past 20 years, and with a considerable amount of $$$ sunk into their product lines (M and SL), I expected better service. The response I received was pretty much, "Yep, we're aware, tough luck your camera is at the borderline of the tolerances we set-out". And that only addresses one of the three problems.

Edited May 28, 2021 by jplomley

[RMF]

@jplomley Thanks for your latest updates and please keep us up to date on the outcome.  I'm sorry that your camera is seeing these issues and I know how frustrating it is.. I've had some experience with issues like this as I think I might have been the first user to reporting a somewhat similar vertical line issue with my then new M8 back in 2006.

 

 

.

Edited May 28, 2021 by RMF

[jplomley]

4 hours ago, mmradman said:

That is faulty sensor, either adjustment or replacement in order.

My feeling as well. Its like its not reading that column of pixels,

[jplomley]

2 hours ago, RMF said:

@jplomley Thanks for your latest updates and please keep us up to date on the outcome.  I'm sorry that your camera is seeing these issues and I know how frustrating it is.. I've had some experience with issues like this as I think I might have been the first user to reporting a somewhat similar vertical line issue with my then new M8 back in 2006.

 

 

.

Thank-you sir. I intend to persevere, as when there are no artifacts, it is a spectacular imaging machine. Probably the best I've owned. Which makes the issues so very heartbreaking!

[jplomley]

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On 5/27/2021 at 12:53 AM, SoarFM said:

Just so happened to happen upon this article...

 

"It’s still sometimes possible to make patterns appear in the noise floor of an M10 Monochrom file when you rotate or geometrically distort an image.  Anyone who’s seen this with either of the earlier Monochroms will continue to see it with the new M10 version. The extent to which these patterns are visible has always been dependent on a RAW converter’s interpolation algorithms. ...It’s a rather minor problem with many workarounds, "

https://www.ultrasomething.com/2020/01/paradox-view-the-m10-monochrom/

 
 Whether this purported problem is really a showstopper seems dependent on how you use your M10M.

My take is that Lloyd Chambers is making a mountain out of a molehill. That's his business model. It's up to the enduser to decide. A lot of wonderful photographs have been made with equipment that Mr. Chambers finds fatally and irredeemably flawed.

 

When a waffle pattern appears in the sky, it is easy to correct using the despeckle tool in PS. However, when it appears on light coloured smooth fabrics, then it is very difficult to eliminate, particularly without losing resolution. The ISO's where I observe the pattern are nowhere near the noise floor of the camera. I suspect my copy is on the border of tolerance acceptability....

Edited May 29, 2021 by jplomley

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, jplomley said:

When a waffle pattern appears in the sky, it is easy to correct using the despeckle tool in PS. However, when it appears on light coloured smooth fabrics, then it is very difficult to eliminate, particularly without losing resolution. The ISO's where I observe the pattern are nowhere near the noise floor of the camera. I suspect my copy is on the border of tolerance acceptability....

Sorry to read about your issues. Can your dealer intervene in some way, ideally for an (another?) exchange?

Jeff

[jplomley]

11 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Sorry to read about your issues. Can your dealer intervene in some way, ideally for an (another?) exchange?

Jeff

Hi Jeff, I am looking into all available avenues to have this resolved.

Curious, did you ever end up purchasing one?  IIRC, you were giving it serious consideration.

 

[Jeff S]

27 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Curious, did you ever end up purchasing one?  IIRC, you were giving it serious consideration.

 

Yes, rented for a week and decided to purchase. Just recently got it, but haven’t had time to use it.   I’ll of course check for any similar problems once I do.  If so, I would fully expect an exchange from my dealer.... or they would cease to be my dealer.  In the meantime, I’m hanging on to my M9M.

Jeff

[maitoparta]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:46 PM, jplomley said:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The latest issue....full image

 

This is not a camera I would pay 8000 euro.

[Gobert]

1 hour ago, maitoparta said:

This is not a camera I would pay 8000 euro.

That’s an irrelevant opinion for this discussion. 

[pnwpotter]

Leica exchanged my M10M at the end of February. The sensor had lines (multiple) appearing a quarter of the way into images which would, depending on lighting, either show up as bright white or a darker shade of the surrounding area. I sent sample images along with the camera to Leica through my dealer. They exchanged it, no hassle, and the camera I received has no issues. To read this thread it does seem that there is a QR issue that Leica is not checking for before camera are sent out into the wild ... it's a shame as it makes both owners and would be owners question it's being able to produce defect free images.  

[jplomley]

3 hours ago, maitoparta said:

This is not a camera I would pay 8000 euro.

When there are no artifacts, the image quality is spectacular. I still feel it is the best B&W solution in 35mm for a multitude of applications, particularly street photography. The resolution is ideal for landscapes, and the ability to shoot at any ISO gives one valuable leeway on aperture and shutter speed for street. I feel that the camera is worth the asking price for those whose vision involves a high percentage of B&W imaging. 

[maitoparta]

On 5/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, jplomley said:

When there are no artifacts, the image quality is spectacular. I still feel it is the best B&W solution in 35mm for a multitude of applications, particularly street photography. The resolution is ideal for landscapes, and the ability to shoot at any ISO gives one valuable leeway on aperture and shutter speed for street. I feel that the camera is worth the asking price for those whose vision involves a high percentage of B&W imaging. 

Yeah, well, there are one another highly annoying reason too. (Namely that M cameras are young man cameras with good eyesight. My eyesight is not up to M cameras anymore, I can focus fine long distances but short distances I have to guess the focus point. I bought a diopter correction lense (180 euro roflmao), with it I can focus on close range but long range is a bit fussy. That however works for me better since I want to be able to focus accurately on people on short range. Using glasses is no go. But thanks to technology there are cameras with EVF, with diopter corrections, and which I can presumably use and be like having eyes of a young man.)

Anyway, above all I want perfect image quality of 8000 euro camera.

 

[Gobert]

I use it with glasses. Even with the Noct 0.95 or the APO Telyt 135 I have no focussing problems

Edited May 31, 2021 by Gobert

[maitoparta]

50 minutes ago, Gobert said:

I use it with glasses. Even with the Noct 0.95 or the APO Telyt 135 I have no focussing problems

I have tried it with glasses too, works pretty fine, but I hate to wear glasses outdoors and 28mm framelines go slightly out of view. I enjoyed rangefinders a lot because of the easy precision focus. Small form factor was a bonus. Would hate to leave my beloved M9 but since there are options these days on mirrorless I dunno if have to do it. Rangefinder was so great zip zip focus snapped. Now it is like zip, hmm, zip, hmm? Zip, zip, zip. Hmm? Maybe would have to try out how muscle memory focusing would work with zipping

[Gobert]

1 hour ago, maitoparta said:

I have tried it with glasses too, works pretty fine, but I hate to wear glasses outdoors and 28mm framelines go slightly out of view. I enjoyed rangefinders a lot because of the easy precision focus. Small form factor was a bonus. Would hate to leave my beloved M9 but since there are options these days on mirrorless I dunno if have to do it. Rangefinder was so great zip zip focus snapped. Now it is like zip, hmm, zip, hmm? Zip, zip, zip. Hmm? Maybe would have to try out how muscle memory focusing would work with zipping

You should do what you think is right to do.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[maitoparta]

9 minutes ago, Gobert said:

You should do what you think is right to do.

Yeah, you are right, sometimes it can be just hard to know what is the right thing to do. Anyways, in this case it is pretty simple. There is nothing wrong in my beloved Leica, it is all literally in my eyes. I shall stop lusting for a new camera and embrace the great camera I already have. Thanks man.

[a.noctilux]

7 hours ago, maitoparta said:

Yeah, well, there are one another highly annoying reason too. (Namely that M cameras are young man cameras with good eyesight. My eyesight is not up to M cameras anymore, I can focus fine long distances but short distances I have to guess the focus point. I bought a diopter correction lense (180 euro roflmao), with it I can focus on close range but long range is a bit fussy. That however works for me better since I want to be able to focus accurately on people on short range. Using glasses is no go. But thanks to technology there are cameras with EVF, with diopter corrections, and which I can presumably use and be like having eyes of a young man.)

Anyway, above all I want perfect image quality of 8000 euro camera.

 

Very strange that you can see well at close range and not so with long range.

Do you mean the "focus patch" ?

I always think that the focussing patch (at center of VF) on Leica M setting at around 2meters and not depending on the subject distance.